Jump to content

Introduction To Ancient Empires


Prodigal Son
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ancient Empires is a mod for 0 A.D. Empires Ascendant, aiming at historical authenticity and gameplay rebalance. Currently I'm working alone on it, but if you are interested in helping out you can contact me. Feedback and brainstorming are very welcome as well, you can check the specific threads and add your suggestions. The mod's main goals, changes and features are listed bellow.

Gameplay: The mod is closer to Age Of Kings than any other RTS game, to which the tech-tree layout and parts of gameplay are pretty similar. However many concepts from 0 A.D. have been maintained, together with ideas taken from other games, the community, as well as several of mine. The game pace is slower and a bit more macro focused compared to the main game in almost every aspect. Counters (mostly soft) are reintroduced in many cases, inspired mostly from historical unit roles. For more details check here.

Civilizations: For now no new civs have been added, as balancing the existing 12 is already hard enough. The tech-tree is made more clear by having a majority of common techs and units available at standardized structures and Civ specific ones available at the Fortress (with a few exceptions clarified at the history screen). Each Civ gets a mostly new set of bonuses and champion units, which are now changed as a concept. Links to Civ threads: Athen Brit Cart Gaul Iber Mace Maur Pers Ptol Rome Sele Spart

Units: Unique units, the replacement of champions, aren't necessarily the most powerful units a Civ can have. Each civ gets a historically determined base rooster from the shared units, which range from cheap Skirmishers to powerful War Elephants. Unique units often come to fill missing unit roles or add new ones and are chosen from rare units that were dissimilar in function to other, more common units. So there won't be many unit duplicates per faction, like Spearman and Superspearman with the exact same role, only different in power and cost. Some exceptions exist, as this is a still a work in progress feature. Besides unique units, some Civs have slightly varied versions of the common units. For example, in place of the weak, basic spearman, the Athenians get the more costly and powerful Hoplite.

Random Maps: The mod will focus on random maps instead of skirmish maps, to reduce copy-paste build orders and keep scouting important.

Major Changes: Some core features of 0 A.D. have been removed or majorly altered. Citizen-Soldiers are gone now, to make raiding the economy a more valid strategy and allow for bigger price/attribute differences between units and civs without breaking balance too much. Female citizens have been replaced with male ones until a possibility for different sexes per unit is implemented (see help needed). Structure capturing was never implemented in the mod and probably won't be. Territory influence has a softer function. It is needed for the construction of some structures and prevents enemies from building in it, but most structures can be constructed outside of it. Line of sight and attack range are generally much lower than in the main game. Starting stone and metal mines are moved right outside of the players starting territory in most random maps instead of being close to the civil centre.

You can find many more ideas here (not all of those fit with the mod's concept though).

Edited by Prodigal Son
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

OMG.

Someone else who understands time is a resource!

I bet there's many more who get it, but yeah it's going to play a part in this mod.

O dear. ..citizen soldiers just stand around, cannot work/gather. Feels annoying, whole eco done by women. Is this your vision of historical correctness?

The citizen soldiers are one of the greatest features of 0ad. Changing this is a shot in the knee, imho.

It's one of the major changes I'm currently working on. I've decided for it, to further differentiate the mod from the core game.

I completely agree it's a great feature, with many pros, but it also has it's cons. It's realism is debatable. I can see that many workers could double as levy troops, but in any state that would be only a portion of the population. Also, weapons appearing out of nowhere for a working woodcutter for example isn't realistic and moving to a structure to equip isn't implemented (nor desirable gameplay-wise imo). Females as the only workers is only a placeholder, I plan to have males as well.

It also breaks the early game economic balance if I further differentiate early unit costs, power and train times between civs, which is in the to do list. It makes raiding far less viable since workers can fight back with an equal power to the raiders. I'm also considering to have 1 worker per farm. That would make raiding the farming economy more important since farms will have to be more and more spread out to provide the needed food, and raiding farms was an important asset of warfare. Males will be viable farmers as well, which is also realistic.

In conclusion I can't say one choice is bad and the other is good, just a different gameplay approach, more realistic at some parts and less at other. Have an open mind till you see it's final form, then judge it:)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree it's a great feature, with many pros, but it also has it's cons. It's realism is debatable. I can see that many workers could double as levy troops, but in any state that would be only a portion of the population. Also, weapons appearing out of nowhere for a working woodcutter for example isn't realistic and moving to a structure to equip isn't implemented (nor desirable gameplay-wise imo). Females as the only workers is only a placeholder, I plan to have males as well.

That's what we should work on then. Citizen soldiers were of course not directly recruited from the fields in an immediate action. Nevertheless they were drawn in - the more the better, because they were cheap and easily replacable. Farmer's had many children to have less farmwork themselves as hard as that sounds :-(.

To allow male workers just copy the female template to support_male_citizen...

Then either look at the corresponding male citizen actor XML and remove the variants you don't like - or just use the citizen soldier actor 'as is' in the copied female template -- because when the simulation not requests certain variants (because females can't fight but flee) then it doesn't matter if they are defined inthe actor XML or not.

Good luck with this project. It's a lot of work ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh well, I was going to name my Mod ''Ancient Empires''... but seems like I wasn't fast enough :P

I hope the don't sue me:p. Not that it's some amazing or super-original name anyway.

That's what we should work on then. Citizen soldiers were of course not directly recruited from the fields in an immediate action. Nevertheless they were drawn in - the more the better, because they were cheap and easily replacable. Farmer's had many children to have less farmwork themselves as hard as that sounds :-(.

To allow male workers just copy the female template to support_male_citizen...

Then either look at the corresponding male citizen actor XML and remove the variants you don't like - or just use the citizen soldier actor 'as is' in the copied female template -- because when the simulation not requests certain variants (because females can't fight but flee) then it doesn't matter if they are defined inthe actor XML or not.

Good luck with this project. It's a lot of work ...

Any gameplay-related ideas to have a better and realistic function compared to the core game or "my" (classic RTS) idea?

I'd like to have workers as one unit, but have them spawn with a random sex. This is currently an issue from what I've asked/learned since handling different voices related to different versions of the same actor isn't in the game code yet. So it would cause some females having male voices for example. It will have to wait for the feature implementation, or I might add temporary male workers.

Thanks for the support, it will be done little by little:)

Edited by Prodigal Son
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

To get a little more specific on my current thoughts about the mod, I am considering 3 gameplay variations and I need to settle on one if I am to resume work on the files at some point:

1) Make this into a more or less Age Of Empires II clone set in the ancient era. It should be the easiest time and balance wise and I still love the oldschool gameplay.

2) Grand strategy style. Should include the return of capturing, no workers (but auto-gathering from captured structures instead), historical maps/scenarios, strategic resources, a very basic structure tree but a detailed tech/policy tree and loads more. Could make use of many 0 A.D. features I don't consider really fitting in classic RTS gameplay, have more realism and possibly fun, but it would be a lot of work and very hard to balance for multiplayer.

3) Continue from the point I left it at. Think AOE with a blizzard RTS twist, as of structure requirements instead of "ages/phases" and an intermediate state of faction rooster uniqueness. Or 0 A.D. with more clear (but not very hard) counters and without citizen soldiers, frantic unit speeds and capturing. Not sure how helpful it is, but you can see a generic tech tree I use as the base for civ design in this case.

 

58d4f407edead_BaseTechtree.thumb.png.9defc17ec454ced53edbd788901bf469.png

Edited by Prodigal Son
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...