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Before Starting To Work On My Mod


Prodigal Son
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20 members have voted

  1. 1. On citizen-soldiers:

    • Just remove them and have separate workers/builders. Better for unit variety changes and raiding.
      3
    • Just remove them, to have the mod more different from the core game.
      1
    • Keep them for now. Less things to change, allows for any successful ideas to be transfared to the core game easier.
      5
    • Keep them overall, they are a must-have.
      11
    • Other, discuss.
      0
  2. 2. Territories

    • Just remove them. Better for freedom to build everywere and variety between matches and strategies
      3
    • Just remove them, to have the mod more different from the core game.
      5
    • Keep them for now. Less things to change, allows for any successful ideas to be transfared to the core game easier.
      3
    • Keep them overall, they are a must-have.
      9
    • Other, discuss.
      0
  3. 3. Do you like this mod Idea?

    • Yes and I'm willing to help with it!
      5
    • Yes, I'd love it!
      6
    • I'd try it.
      9
    • I don't like ... (specify what)
      0
    • It's terrible (poll is not puplic, feel free)
      0


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Just had a quick test of your mod:

Rural Lifestyle civ bonus: All infantry citizen soldiers farm, hunt and herd 50% faster. Their farming rate is still lower that the one of females

Not true. Citizen soldiers (gauls, not upgraded) farm faster than women now, would say around 10% ....

Edited by zzippy
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Rural Lifestyle

{"value": "ResourceGatherer/Rates/food.grain", "add": 0.25},
{"value": "ResourceGatherer/Rates/food.meat", "add": 0.5}

Female Gather Rates

<food.grain>0.5</food.grain>
<food.meat>1</food.meat>

Male Gather Rates

<food.grain>0.25</food.grain>
<food.meat>1</food.meat>

So I've mistakenly added +100% instead of +50% at the farming rate. That would make them equals and that extra 10% you monitored should be from the female auras. Thanks for the find.

SPARTANS (more experimental than the rest so far)

  • Laws of Lycurgus civ bonus: All upgrades at the Syssition cost no resources, but have double research time.
  • Feminine Mystique civ bonus: unchanged, spartan female citizens are capable of constructing defense towers and palisades and have x2.5 damage versus siege weapons.
  • Wall of Men civ bonus: Spartan Spear Infantry +10% hit point and attack but also +20% train time. The Spartans can't build stone walls.
  • Peloponnesian League team bonus: +10% spear unit hit points (currently not shared)..
  • Cleomenian Reforms: Spartan Pikemen are unlocked. +25% farming rate for all workers.
  • Tyrtean Paeans tech: +10% spear infantry walk and run speed.
  • The Agoge tech: +25% health for spear infantry, but also +10% train time.
  • Syssition Limited to one, moved to the village phase
  • Spartan Hoplites trained at the Civ Center and Syssition, Spartan Royal Guard Champion Hoplites trained at the Syssition
  • Skirites given normal swordsmen attributes and ranks.
  • Barracks trains all the non-hoplite units.
Edited by Prodigal Son
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All changes so far (reduced detail to save space)

MISC CHANGES

  • Trade Ships cost 100 wood 50 metal
  • Wonders provide a tickle of metal
  • Many new/changed techs (wip)

CARTHAGE

Civ Bonuses:
  • Cavalry, Traders and Ships +20% line of sight.
  • Civic Centers, Houses and Temples -20% build time.

Team Bonus:

  • Trade Ships move 33% faster (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Barcid Armies Reform: Mercenaries cost 20% less metal and gain +1 pierce and hack armor levels.
  • Fortified Barracks: +30% Fortress and Barracks hit points.
  • Mass Production: -25% Siege Weapon build time.

Misc:

  • Ship Armor and Construction Speed upgrades now available at both docks, to remove their inexcusable naval handicap.
  • Reduced Temple cost to 300, 400 seemed too high.

CELTS

Civ Bonuses:
  • Infantry citizen soldiers +50% farm, hunt and herd rate.
  • Druids increase attack damage of soldiers near them by 0.5 (low placeholder until non-stacked auras are available).
  • Melee infantry +10% walk and run speed.
  • Structures construct 20% faster but are also 20% weaker.

Gauls only Team Bonus:

  • 10% decreased train time for Champion and Mercenary units (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Trimarchisia: Cavalry units regenerate health rapidly over time when idle.
  • Late Reform: +2 hack and +1 pierce armor for melee infantry and cavalry units.

Britons only Team Bonus:

  • +50% Trade Ship hit points (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Sevili Dusios: +20% melee infantry attack (placeholder for woad caused fear aura).
  • Turos Maros: Increases tower hit points by 50% and adds an extra default arrow.
  • Levy Reform: All citizen soldiers train 20% faster.

ATHENIANS

Civ Bonuses:
  • +10% metal mining rate for each phase up.
  • Structures have +10% hit points.
  • Javelin units +15% pierce damage.

Team Bonus:

  • +25% ship construction speed (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Iphicratian Reforms: +15% movement speed for all infantry.
  • Long Walls: Readded the -50% wall cost bonus but increased research cost (Change to build faster!!!). Still allows wall construction in neutral territory.
  • Imperialism: Civic Centers provide a small tickle of metal.
  • Chorigoi: Reduces Trireme metal cost by 50%.

SPARTANS

Civ Bonuses:
  • All upgrades at the Syssition cost no resources, but have double research time.
  • Spartan female citizens are capable of constructing defense towers and palisades and have x2.5 damage versus siege weapons.
  • Spartan Spear Infantry +10% hit point and attack but also +20% train time.
  • Can't build stone walls.

Team Bonus:

  • +10% spear unit hit points (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Cleomenian Reforms: Spartan Pikemen are unlocked. +25% farming rate for all workers.
  • Tyrtean Paeans: +10% spear infantry walk and run speed.
  • The Agoge: +25% health for spear infantry, but also +10% train time.

Misc:

  • Syssition limited to one, moved to the village phase
  • Spartan Hoplites trained at the Civ Center and Syssition, Spartan Royal Guard Champion Hoplites trained at the Syssition
  • Skirites given normal swordsmen attributes and ranks.
  • Barracks trains the non-hoplite units.

MACEDONIANS

Civ Bonuses:
  • +10% Cavalry walk and run speed.
  • +15% Javelin Infantry attack.

Team Bonus:

  • All units and structures -5% metal cost (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Antigonid Reform: Pikemen train 20% faster and get +1 hack and pierce armor levels. Unlocks the Kestros Sling upgrade (to be enhanced by second reform).
  • Fetters Of Hellas: +50% Fortress hit points.
  • Silver Shields Regiment: Upgrade Shield Bearer Champion Infantry to Silver Shields, with greater attack, health and armor.
  • Hellenistic Metropolises: Civic Centers have double Health and double default arrows.

SELEUCIDS

Civ Bonuses:
  • Civic Centers provide an increased number of available units, but barracks are limited to weaker levy troops and have a reduced territory influence.
  • Increased number of Champion units available.

Team Bonus:

  • Civic Centers are 20% cheaper (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Cavalry Reform: Unlock the Seleucid Cataphract.
  • Infantry Reform: Unlock the Romanized Heavy Swordsman.
  • Cleruchy: 20% faster batch training for the Civic Center.
  • Nisean War Horses: +20% health for cavalry.
  • Hellenistic Metropolises: Civic Centers have double Health and double default arrows.

Misc:

  • Wip rearrangement of troop production facilities

PTOLEMIES

Civ Bonuses:
  • Civic Centers provide an increased number of available units, but barracks are limited to weaker levy troops and have a reduced territory influence.
  • Houses, Farmsteads, Storehouses and Corrals cost no resources but take longer to build.
  • -50% Temple technology cost and research time.
  • +33% farming rate for all workers.

Team Bonus:

  • Docks provide a slow trickle of food income (currently not shared/placeholder).

Unique Techs:

  • Machimoi Reforms: Unlock the Egyptian Pikeman Champion. (Weak and cheap for a champion, fast trained).
  • Romanization Reforms: All pike infantry units are replaced by Romanized Swordsman Champions. Requires Machimoi Reforms.
  • Advanced Engineering: +20% Structure, Ship and Siege Unit hit points.
  • Ptolemaic Garrisons: Fortresses get 40% more arrows fired per garrisoned soldier.
  • Mercenary Army: -50% Mercenary unit train time.
  • Hellenistic Metropolises: Civic Centers have double Health and double default arrows.

Misc:

  • Wip rearrangement of troop production facilities

ROMANS

Civ Bonuses:
  • Triarii are trained at the advanced rank.
  • Units within vision range of Roman Civil Centre gain +10% attack.

Team Bonus:

  • Infantry citizen soldiers train 10% faster (currently not shared).

Unique Techs:

  • Marian Reforms: All Melee infantry units are replaced by Marian Legionary Champions.
  • Gladius Hispaniensis: +15% Sword infantry attack damage.
  • Logistics: Melee infantry train 25% faster.
  • Imported Construction Technology: +10% Structure, Ship and Siege Unit hit points and attack damage.
  • Sibylline Books: +25% Vision range for all units.

Misc:

  • Extraordinarii removed.
Edited by Prodigal Son
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Just a thought, but perhaps Skiritae could be treated like triarii with their starting rank. Otherwise, good thoughts.

Skiritae are a bit tricky. They were certainly not swordsmen, but spearmen who at first fought as hoplites and then as ekdromoi (light hoplites with no body armor) when the Spartans forced them to do so in need of a more flexible flank guard. They were not some super elite unit, just the fighting men of the town Skiris, to the north of Sparta.

What I'm thinking about is leaving them as swordmen, since Sparta is already too spear-focused, but would that justify buffing them in a role that wasn't even their real one? Any better ideas?

Edited by Prodigal Son
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The reason for having Skiritae treated like elite units is because they were some of the most dependable allied units, as can be learned from Thucydides and Xenophon. I never implied that they were super elite.

True, I didn't mean you said so, it's just the impression they gave trained being at the elite rank and named "commandos". Still they were spearmen and Spartans already have great spearmen and had no dedicated sword units, so I'm concerned about it. Could do it for balance reasons if needed and no better solution is thought of though.

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I've decided to go one step further and rebalance the entire combat system. Units besides heroes, ships and siege are ready besides fine-tuning. I've tried to define unit roles by real attributes.

A few hints on it:

  • Pikemen have greater attack and range (two handed pike) than Spearmen but reduced pierce armor (smaller shields).
  • Swordsmen have the same defense stats with Spearmen, but soft counter them with a higher attack. Pikemen soft counter Spearmen and Swordsmen. However this doesn't mean they're stronger in general. Pikemen are slower and more vulnerable to ranged units. Spearmen are better than Pikemen vs cavalry spears and slightly faster. Swordsmen with their hack attack are better vs structures (assault infantry) and are slightly faster than Spearmen.
  • Skirmishers have much shorter-ranged, heavier and slower attack than Archers and Slingers, while Slingers start with the same range as Archers but get more range upgrades with ranks.
  • All citizen soldiers cost 50 food, but their train times and secondary resource costs are balanced by the expense of their equipment and their drill time. For example, Skirmishers cost 40 wood and train at 8 seconds, Archers 30 wood but train at 12 seconds (cheaper equipment but more training needed for Archers).
  • Citizen soldiers of the same class will have exactly the same stats for all factions, unless altered by civ bonuses. Champions in many cases will be further differentiated regardless of their class (wip).

The civs are coming along nicely, I'd love reform and unique tech suggestions on the Mauryans and the Iberians though.

Everything is still subject to balance and changes, playtesters are very welcome. I'll update this with detailed general and civ changes pretty soon.

Edited by Prodigal Son
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Curious about that skirmisher train time of 8 seconds. Civs without skirmishers get a huge eco disadvantage, especially in earlygame; ptolomies are (imho) op in a17 (especially village phase) cuz of that 8 seconds train time of their nubian archers.

2 questions:

- Iberians: Ever thought of removing their village walls?

- Champions: Health should be increased drastically. They should have more than any upgraded citizen soldier (?).

Will further play/test your mod when its done. Have the feeling that balancing civs might get pretty hard/impossible due to your unique features, but as mentioned earlier, maybe this isn't your intention.

Edited by zzippy
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Reform can be work like pair tech like Seleucid reform

Choose between keep improving old units or new ones.

I'm looking for more specific ideas, not a general concept.

Curious about that skirmisher train time of 8 seconds. Civs without skirmishers get a huge eco disadvantage, especially in earlygame; ptolomies are (imho) op in a17 (especially village phase) cuz of that 8 seconds train time of their nubian archers.

2 questions:

- Iberians: Ever thought of removing their village walls?

- Champions: Health should be increased drastically. They should have more than any upgraded citizen soldier (?).

Will further play/test your mod when its done. Have the feeling that balancing civs might get pretty hard/impossible due to your unique features, but as mentioned earlier, maybe this isn't your intention.

Civs without skirmishers get archers or slingers which train slower but cost less resources. Testing will show if one of the two is op. Btw I've removed all skirmishers and cavalry from the CC (exceptions are seleucids and ptolemies with some town phase troops) and only pers/mau can train archers at the CC. The rest of the civs only train spearmen and females there. (I think those ptolemaic archers train at 7 secs and are available at the civ center and cost no food, things which make them relatively more spammable than my skirmishers early on). There's still the chance I'll remove citizen soldiers overall at some point, so such things will effect balance far less.

  • Already removed the Iberian walls and replaced them with a slightly buffed CC. Still looking for extra unique techs and reforms for them and the Mauryans.
  • Champions are indeed buffed and more health is one of their changes.

I'm sure it's hard to reach perfect balance, that can't be done anyway unless the civs are clones of each other, but I believe I've got a clue on the effects of most of my design choices and where testing proves me wrong, things will change. Testing will be needed indeed:).

Edited by Prodigal Son
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