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[Part II] Faction: The Chinese (Song Dynasty)


wolflance
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@Ayakashi
As I said before I am more of a historical accuracy type of person than a RTS balance guy ---- That said the points you raised are all very valid, I did not think it thoroughly when I was drafting the roster in my pursue on historicity.

The Song Chinese...well, in term of military capabilities, they are really the weakest among all the China's dynasties (relatively speaking). They had to rely on numerical superiority to win battle, although they did not use 'human wave tactic' per se, instead they opt for massive amount of crossbowmen.

They really did get roflstomped a lot too, but I guess getting too accurate wouldn't made for a fun or balanced RTS.

Edited by wolflance
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The Song did suffer many humiliating losses but I wouldn't exactly say they got roflstomped. After all they did last longer against the Mongols than everyone else! Too bad they were so stupidly paranoid about military coups and kept executing their best generals.

Btw, What would you think about maybe having specialized, non-garrisonable chuangzi nu crossbow and flamethrower towers to help with turtling gameplay?

Edited by Ayakashi
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The Song did suffer many humiliating losses but I wouldn't exactly say they got roflstomped. After all they did last longer against the Mongols than everyone else! Too bad they were so stupidly paranoid about military coups and kept executing their best generals.

Btw, What would you think about maybe having specialized, non-garrisonable chuangzi nu crossbow and flamethrower towers to help with turtling gameplay?

They lasted that long partly because of the Southern China's terrain, which isn't very suitable for cavalry-based army (Mongols were not very good infantry and sailors - not yet), and partly because the Mongol themselves were at (two separate) civil wars that lasted from 1241-1251 and 1260-1264, the second one essentially split the Mongol Empire into many smaller khanates (that are hostile to each other).

Meng Gong did a respectable job beating the Mongol in the first phase of the war though. If only he lived longer...

My current proposal put both the chuangzi nu and flamethrower as upgrade for tower (less building model to worry about), so a fully upgraded Chinese tower can shoot three different weapons at the same time (normal arrows, Chuangzi bolt, and fire), plus whatever the garrisoned guys can shoot.

I am considering the 震天雷 iron-cased bomb as upgrade for tower as well, which I visualize as an close (almost melee) range, very large AOE one-hit-kill attack for the tower to deter melee assault. Maybe make it an manually activated ability.

The Chuangzi nu has a separate, mobile siege weapon version.

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A tower with that many weapons might be too OP. I can imagine a player just spamming these around the base without too much thought and really give the opponent a needlessly hard time. Specialized towers with individual strengths and weaknesses will allow for more strategic depth from both sides and make turtling more fun! It will also give something unique and appealing for the faction (might even make up for the weak units). Plus, IMO taking shortcuts shouldn't sacrifice for making the mod fun and balanced.

So I'd have it like this:

- regular tower: we all knows how it works, but bomb upgrade can be applied to it (low-mid AOE damage)

- chunagzi nu crossbow tower: one shot kills most units, strong vs siege units, slow reload, has a minimum rage radius so it's vulnerable to massed melee unit/ram rush

- flamethrower tower: strong splash damage or in a line, short ranged, kills units almost instantly, good vs rush tactics, outranged by most siege units

I'm not sure whether if it's better to have them as 3 separate buildings or as individually converted wall towers (with graphic change & will automatically eject garrisoned units if applied).

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I believe putting siege crossbow on tower is by no means a Chinese-only practice tho. So I put the upgrade under the assumption that everyone else will get similar upgrade(s)...There are discussion on other vanilla thread that want to nerf early tower but gives them more upgrade later on, so I was thinking along that line.

I am OK on three separate tower too.

Edited by wolflance
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