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For a New Faction: Lusitanian.


Ardworix
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Forgive me for asking but how different are the Lusitani from the Iberians, gameplay wise?(page 4 onward)

While these have acess to mercenaries, the roster seems unchaged in function. The builds sure have a distinct look to them and the Trade post from Carthage is a nice touch. The faction bonuses are bit bloated no? Fortifications and essencially spartan women? Plus the temple aura that both heals your troops and damages the enemy, not to mention the ability to train CS from houses. If I am not mistaken these even have the same unique armory tech that the Iberians have.

Despite all this I do have to say that our spaniard put alot of love and work in to this! Great job with the models, really.

Edited by PyrrhicVictoryGuy
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3 hours ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

Forgive me for asking but how different are the Lusitani from the Iberians, gameplay wise?(page 4 onward)

While these have acess to mercenaries, the roster seems unchaged in function. The builds sure have a distinct look to them and the Trade post from Carthage is a nice touch. The faction bonuses are bit bloated no? Fortifications and essencially spartan women? Plus the temple aura that both heals your troops and damages the enemy, not to mention the ability to train CS from houses. If I am not mistaken these even have the same unique armory tech that the Iberians have.

Despite all this I do have to say that our spaniard put alot of love and work in to this! Great job with the models, really.

Buenos días/tardes;

-Gracias por preguntar @PyrrhicVictoryGuy ;

-La jugabilidad y las bonificaciones aún necesitan pulirse , hace falta más apoyo de la comunidad para dejar claras las diferencias con los íberos y otras facciones.(Los íberos también necesitan una ligera modificación)En este caso pasaría lo mismo que con los "celtas" que se segregaron hace tiempo en dos ;"Britanos" y "Galos". (En este caso , los actuales "íberos" representan a todas las tribus de La Península ibérica , eso es un error histórico ...Además , las mayores guerras que se libraron entre indígenas de la Península Ibérica y los invasores romanos , fueron las Guerras Lusitanas  (que llegaron a combatir en África) y las Guerras Celtíberas (pero los Celtíberos son facción con menos posibilidades).De esta forma las facciones quedan más definidas e históricamente más fieles.

-Todo está en desarrollo , cualquier sugerencia , crítica , aportación... son tanto bienvenidas como necesarias.

-¿Qué Bonificaciones o jugabilidad plantea usted @PyrrhicVictoryGuy ?^_^

 

Disculpen las molestias*

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1 minute ago, Duileoga said:

Buenas ,

-No entiendo que quiere decir usted...:sweatdrop:

 

Disculpe las molestias*

No había Seleucidas, Ptolomeos,Macedonios, Espartanos,Atenienses, Britanos y Galos.

Todos los griegos eran una sola facción , los celtas, etc...por ende los Iberos nadie se tomó la molestia de separarlos.

 

Por ende nadie los entendía. Fuera del mundo de la península nadie hablaba de ellos.

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5 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

No había Seleucidas, Ptolomeos,Macedonios, Espartanos,Atenienses, Britanos y Galos.

Todos los griegos eran una sola facción , los celtas, etc...por ende los Iberos nadie se tomó la molestia de separarlos.

 

Por ende nadie los entendía. Fuera del mundo de la península nadie hablaba de ellos.

-Para mí no es molestias y si para vosotros/ustedes tampoco , ayudaré en el desarrollo de "Lusitanos" y posteriormente de "Íberos".

 

Disculpen las molestias*

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9 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

No había Seleucidas, Ptolomeos,Macedonios, Espartanos,Atenienses, Britanos y Galos.

Todos los griegos eran una sola facción , los celtas, etc...por ende los Iberos nadie se tomó la molestia de separarlos.

 

Por ende nadie los entendía. Fuera del mundo de la península nadie hablaba de ellos.

Posdata; La incorporación y segregación de Seléucidas , Ptolemaicos , Macedonios etc... son muy buenas y muy bonitas.

 

Disculpen las molestias*

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45 minutes ago, Duileoga said:

Buenos días/tardes;

-Gracias por preguntar @PyrrhicVictoryGuy ;

-La jugabilidad y las bonificaciones aún necesitan pulirse , hace falta más apoyo de la comunidad para dejar claras las diferencias con los íberos y otras facciones.(Los íberos también necesitan una ligera modificación)En este caso pasaría lo mismo que con los "celtas" que se segregaron hace tiempo en dos ;"Britanos" y "Galos". (En este caso , los actuales "íberos" representan a todas las tribus de La Península ibérica , eso es un error histórico ...Además , las mayores guerras que se libraron entre indígenas de la Península Ibérica y los invasores romanos , fueron las Guerras Lusitanas  (que llegaron a combatir en África) y las Guerras Celtíberas (pero los Celtíberos son facción con menos posibilidades).De esta forma las facciones quedan más definidas e históricamente más fieles.

-Todo está en desarrollo , cualquier sugerencia , crítica , aportación... son tanto bienvenidas como necesarias.

-¿Qué Bonificaciones o jugabilidad plantea usted @PyrrhicVictoryGuy ?^_^

 

Disculpen las molestias*

I won't pretend like I did any interested in the Iberian peoples, only after sertorias did these people come to my attention and i think it is hard to give differentiate them significantly from the Iberian faction as it stands right now. Iberia is land of plenty so naturally it highly valued by the powers that be. To reflect this I would sugest a slight metal gather rate increase, in the order of 8%. It is also very difficult to reflect guerrila warfare, even fabian warfare so I don't see a way around this.

Edited by PyrrhicVictoryGuy
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1 hour ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

I won't pretend like I did any interested in the Iberian peoples, only after sertorias did these people come to my attention and i think it is hard to give differentiate them significantly from the Iberian faction as it stands right now. Iberia is land of plenty so naturally it highly valued by the powers that be. To reflect this I would sugest a slight metal gather rate increase, in the order of 8%. It is also very difficult to reflect guerrila warfare, even fabian warfare so I don't see a way around this.

 

With a little research you will see that there are many differences, just for a start the Iberians were not Indo-European, what happens now and that the current Iberica civ is a large coopilation of the peoples of the Iberian penisula at the time. The fact is that the research-based Lusitanian mod focuses precisely on the Lusitanian tribes and is therefore more accurate, I don't think we should worry about being radically different from the Iberian 0ad for two reasons. 1. The Lusitanians and Iberians geographically close would have one thing or another in common. 2. The civilization represented in 0ad has some characteristics of the Lusitanians (ex hero Viriato).

 

About " guerrila warfare" some things being done in Delenda est, I haven't seen the background as I don't have much time to play lately. But nothing is too difficult to prevent you from being tempted.

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2 minutes ago, Lopess said:

 

With a little research you will see that there are many differences, just for a start the Iberians were not Indo-European, what happens now and that the current Iberica civ is a large coopilation of the peoples of the Iberian penisula at the time. The fact is that the research-based Lusitanian mod focuses precisely on the Lusitanian tribes and is therefore more accurate, I don't think we should worry about being radically different from the Iberian 0ad for two reasons. 1. The Lusitanians and Iberians geographically close would have one thing or another in common. 2. The civilization represented in 0ad has some characteristics of the Lusitanians (ex hero Viriato).

 

About " guerrila warfare" some things being done in Delenda est, I haven't seen the background as I don't have much time to play lately. But nothing is too difficult to prevent you from being tempted.

Yeah, so the fact that they have said things in common plus the fact that gameplay wise, they would have very similar units and roles makes it so hard me thinks

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5 hours ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

I won't pretend like I did any interested in the Iberian peoples, only after sertorias did these people come to my attention and i think it is hard to give differentiate them significantly from the Iberian faction as it stands right now. Iberia is land of plenty so naturally it highly valued by the powers that be. To reflect this I would sugest a slight metal gather rate increase, in the order of 8%. It is also very difficult to reflect guerrila warfare, even fabian warfare so I don't see a way around this.

Buenos días/tardes;

-Muchas gracias , si , la Península fue muy apreciada por sus metales , culturas locales como Tartessos se enriquecieron con su comercio y sobre todo lo evidenciaron; los cartagineses  ,que invadieron la zona para hacerse con sus recursos minerales para poder pagar a sus mercenarios y los Romanos también , tanto , que llegaron a contaminar el medio ambiente (como pasó con el Rio Tinto).

-Así que podrían tener una bonificación de recolección de metales.^_^

 

Disculpen las molestias*

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  • 2 months later...
Posted (edited)
On 02/05/2021 at 12:10 PM, Duileoga said:

Buenas ;

Aquí un listado de los nombres de caudillos lusitanos que pueden ser para la "ia"(inteligencia artificial);

 

1."Viriato ";-------------------------------(Virilos )
2." Cauceno";----------------------------( Kaikainos)
3."Césaro ";------------------------------(Caisaro )
4." Púnico";------------------------------(Apimano )
5." Taútalo";------------------------------( Teutalus)
6."Curius ";-------------------------------( Coutio)
7." Apuleio";------------------------------(Apano )
8." Conoba";-----------------------------( Connoba)
 

(los nombres originales en lusitano son motivo de debate)

https://www.ucm.es/data/cont/docs/106-2016-05-03-14.Vives.pdf 

https://ifc.dpz.es/recursos/publicaciones/28/40/05salinas.pdf

 

Disculpen las molestias*

 

I suggest that it is among the three heroes: Cauceno, Viriato and Sertorius.

Caucene, because he did the feat of crossing the columns of Hercules, and attacking the Romans at their base in North Africa. What did denotes a certain naval mastery of Lusitanian. About it, says Apiano:

Quote

The Lusitanians on the other side of the Tejo River and those who were already at war with the Romans, whose head was Cauceno, began to devastate the Country of the Conios that were submitted to the Romans and took Conitorgis, an important city of them. They crossed the ocean along with the columns of Hercules and some made incursions into a part of Africa and others besieged the city of Ocilis. 

Viriato for obvious reasons which I won't elaborate on. 

Especially, I think it would be interesting to add Sertorius as the third hero of the lusitanian faction. In spite of being of Roman origin. Sertório was certainly, after Viriato, the greatest "general" who led the lusitanian in a war as intense or more intense than the one waged by Viriato. There was a moment when the Romans mobilized 130 thousand men against the Portuguese of Sertorius.

Quote

Mommsen considers Sertorius the greatest Roman so far, but at the same time he recognizes that it was the Portuguese who allowed him to reveal himself; that his superiority lay in adapting to them, ceasing to be the heavy, emphatic Roman, to be the gentleman, vivacious, guerrilla captain like Viriato himself: "All Sertorius' successes were linked to the country (Lusitania), to skills of its inhabitants". Also with Sertorius - only murder freed the Romans from the invincible enemy. Even so, having won the victory of the treacherous dagger, it was not for Rome to be the fearless mistress of the fearsome Portuguese. Nor Caesar, despite representing the same ideas as Sertorius, and admitting, in principle, the pretensions of Lusitania. It was still necessary for Augustus a campaign, more political than military, and that definitively shaped the old warrior nation into a Roman province.

This also implies an increase in the gameplay of the Lusitanian faction. This is because, with Sertorius, it is mentioned by Plutarch that Sertorius' troops created a naval flotilla, siege weapons and other weapons, previously only used by the Romans. In other words, the Lusitanian faction could have available weapons already available in the Roman faction.

Quote

"X.- He was meditating where he would go from there, when the Lusitanians called him, giving him, through ambassadors, with the command; because being lacking a general opinion and experience, which could oppose fear that the Romans inspired them, they only had confidence in him, having known from those who had treated him what his nature; [....] XI.- Whatever the Lusitanians called him, he left the Africa, and placing himself in front of them, his general constituted with absolute empire, subjected that part to their obedience. of Spain, joining him more voluntarily, because, for the most part, of its sweetness and activity " - Plutarch.

Quote

"He defeated Cota in naval combat near the port of Melaria, and Aufidio, prefect of Baetica, he defeated on the banks of Betis, killing two hundred Romans." - Plutarch.

Quote

"XIV.- For these exploits those barbarians looked at Sertorius with great love, and also because, accustoming them to arms, to the formation and order of the Roman militia, and removing from their incursions the furious and terrible air, he had reduced his forces to the form of an army, of great gangs of bandits that had seemed before." - Plutarch.

Finally, I think, that Roman weapons could be made available to the Lusitanians in the third and last phase of development.

Edited by Ardworix
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  • 2 weeks later...

Buenos días /tardes/noches;

-Estuve trabajando las texturas de unidades con @Lopess y están en el mod lusitanos , aunque ,siguen en proceso y cualquier sugerencia ,ayuda o crítica será bien aceptada (cuando la base de las unidades esté lista , remodelaré ligeramente algunos edificios debido a sugerencias y críticas );

Textura fase 1 de infantería ligera;

(túnica lusitana escaramuzador)

1074608728_tnicalusitanafase1finalizadaescaramuzador.png.e9351102bbc8b1cef55fcceea18b5a9a.png

(túnica lusitana espadachín)

970454133_tnicalusitanafase1finalizadaespadachn.png.8e843f07b8b1f7cee6e51327107ef317.png

(túnica lusitana hondero)

988574315_tnicalusitanafase1finalizadahondero.png.e8b128afef082d7f5ad4587edc4323ff.png

(túnica lusitana  lancero)

91839408_tnicalusitanafase1finalizadalancero.png.ec773d58af80c7dc6edd8c3a4b261286.png

(aparte de las texturas , hacen falta añadir otros elementos como "texturas para escudos ", cortes de pelo y barba , color de pelo etc...y aunque no se note en esta fase estarían descalzos)

Textura fase 2 infantería ligera;

(túnica lusitana escaramuzador)

160290659_texturaroupasesaramuadorlusitanofase2.png.fd06a76469a3837bd36f5404fe8f59ab.png

(túnica lusitana espadachín)

1269108711_texturaroupasespadachnlusitanofase2.png.d8b0b99ab82b8c14a6b3f1012282842b.png

(túnica lusitana hondero)

1626568530_texturaroupasfundeiroslusitanofase2.png.9805815d00b53fbe48fdf57a5872633b.png

(túnica lusitana  lancero)

817338780_texturaroupaslanceirolusitanofase2.png.58a7e29dddbe2519ba1c0c79a13158bd.png

(las partes en blanco cambiarían de color según el color de facción de los jugadores y jugadoras) 

-También hacen falta integrar otros elementos como calzado o Símbolos en los escudos , etc...

Textura fase 1 caballería ligera;

(caballería cuerpo a cuerpo)

796446121_tnicalusitanafase1finalizadalancero.png.56b8770b80ed74eb0a0b020379902685.png

(caballería a distancia)

1074608728_tnicalusitanafase1finalizadaescaramuzador.png.e9351102bbc8b1cef55fcceea18b5a9a.png

Textura fase 2 caballería ligera;

(Tanto caballería a distancia como caballería cuerpo a cuerpo)

1981386417_texturaroupascavalarialusitanafase2.png.d1f618d78a41286e1f11ee3ad9f86098.png

 

 

Referencias;

(infantería ligera fase 1)

1455564354_EjemploGuerrerosLusitanofase1.png.19aea884d21d2a13db80d933e672a3ea.png698727137_guerrerolusitano2.png.13d6a19fdfcd092536970fa7e104c548.png1222143257_Guerrerolusitanorevistadespertaferro(escaramuceroenfase1).png.17ca36722efe06d7bd8c4609717d67a3.png818828138_guerrierlusitanienavecotres.png.329cc0c17dcd29cdf750cd1c206a0900.png1894127175_infantelusitanojuntoaotrsoberos.png.90658e171b6422a205295379a84ca594.png

(caballería ligera fase 1)

980677936_jinetelusitano.png.f550cd33d8af49f166b6f5b26db49618.png

(infantería ligera y caballería ligera fase 2 )

62204858_guerreirogalaicolusitanoencolorocre.png.cfe055da012287faca2e86bcfa4473c3.png582866339_guerrerogalaicolusitano2.png.b7a6d7507f85084909212481ae0a17e1.png1697767772_guerrerogalaicolusitano3.png.f5fd0bc9f89dfeb8c9a68e4898ae5d31.png1676171668_guerrerogalaico-lusitano3.png.337e8dc28a65f348374f4fd4f2be1166.png194499857_guerrerogalaico-lusitanoemfase2.png.e0ae3fb54842f9f8bd20a310255dd1ac.png880551224_guerrerogalaico-lusitano.png.03f97d560a04bb4d887eea4519c96fcd.png203844655_infantecastrejo.png.c7edd561480d3c4bcdf212781cab963a.png

 

-Estoy en proceso de hacer la Caballería ligera y la infantería ligera de fase 3.

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

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Texturas para unidades campeonas;

 

(Noble/aristócrata lusitano);

1262937852_roupanoblelusitano.png.fc17c141118e0dd0851b42ff9e4a6f76.png

"Capas" para los nobles/aristócratas;

2141358404_capasdeunidadescampeas.png.532af621a5bbc23814496a57926d7822.png

 

Referencia;

170677720_guerrerocastrexoolusitano.png.17f86586d1120eac16e645ffa9ffa054.png

 

(Emboscador lusitano)

180314431_roupaemboscadorlusitano.png.c7b112207fc14edb0e8de6a364eb77af.png

Referencia;

764036089_guerrerocampenoEmboscador.png.902f34c99c61447ea45c5e0083d71b47.png

(Bandolero lusitano);

2137754244_roupabandoleirolusitano.png.5190b8511e9a083f2902b65b43487089.png

-Hice dos ya que la unidad tendrá dos jinetes. Las texturas de arriba para el jinete de atrás y las texturas de abajo para el jinete de enfrente.

 

Referencia;

927421269_guerrerogalaico-lusitano.png.f24c5ed277eb9ade0244935948a3f692.png1400921708_guerrerosgalaico-lusitano.png.e9e7afbd7dc6a10f87f93ff60c04289a.png

 

 

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Texturas para mujer lusitana;

(Mujer lusitana civil Y NO GUERRERA);

978292508_tnicamulherlusitananaoguerreira.png.08f89f6c7c42fb653cc971641a1aecb4.png

referencias;

265819867_avestimenta.png.0e464959e12785b47d9f858c9b6a7a49.png1308473624_cavaleiroguerreiroemulheresempovoado.png.39a7a9e422ec6dfc5589bbc63ee1de75.png69140795_Exposiosobreaculturacastreja-muhleresecermica.png.60aeb3c74c24ff1d7a9e7e3d05ab2e29.png1238260326_Exposiosobreaculturacastreja-oadorno.png.c42b8f64edffbe3509a616515a3dd5e6.png595152933_ExposiosobreasorigensdaCulturaCastrejanafundaodeEsposende.png.e7de8d529dc73f714c5f3a497f426638.png257830521_familiacastreja.png.a980b2a5e0e10001ac543149ec53cc4e.png462903888_FamiliaCastrea.thumb.png.456e46e00ba39e60732b93917cf33dbe.png529838291_muhleresencastroecasas.png.bbfe96055daf0245b8b3d1403668da86.png

-La mujer civil , llevaría capa o un " chal " , diferentes peinados ,adornos en el cabello o en el cuello o brazos ,diferentes  colores de cabello y la textura de túnica que hice sería una túnica de manga larga y falda que llega hasta por encima los tobillos .Las partes en blanco de la túnica cambiarían de color según el color de facción de los jugadores y jugadoras.

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

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The textures are very beautiful, I imagine the work it took to make them.

If you allow me, a few remarks.... regarding the tunics:  Textura fase 2 infantería ligera; (túnica lusitana escaramuzador, espadachín, hondero, lancero, y de la caballería a distancia como caballería cuerpo a cuerpo). 

The skirts (or kilt), based on the statues called "Lusitanian warrior", are in checkerboard (or tartan) which was derived from looms, common to almost all peoples of Indo-European origin. 

I think it would also be important to consider Estrabon's express description of the Lusitanian people's way of dressing, he says:

Quote

" [....] Most have linothorax; others, but in a small number, wear chain mail and the triple summit helmet; helmets are generally made of leather. Pedestrians also have leather gaiters, and each one carries many long darts in his hand; some use spears tipped with bronze. All men are dressed in black, and to tell the truth, they do not leave their sagos using them as blankets on their beds of straw Dry: these robes, like those of the Celts, are made of coarse wool or goat hair. Women only wear colored robes and dresses made of crisscross thread." - Estrabon, Geography, Book III. 

About it, also Diodorus Sciculus:

Quote

"They wear rough black cassocks made of wool, like goat hair. Some of them are armed with the light Welsh shields, others with Sketon as large as shields, and wear greaves on their legs made of coarse fur and bronze helmets over their heads, adorned with red plumes. They carry double-edged swords exactly tempered with steel, and have daggers on the side, of a long span, which they make use of in close fights." - Diodorus Siculus - Book V, Brittany, Gaul and Iberia. 

I believe that linothorax is missing, such as the lorica saquamata, among the armor of the Lusitanians. As well as, I think that the coloring of the clothes as of the covers, in the textures, should be predominantly black. I also consider that leggings, leather or fur, should figure in the texture. 

I would also suggest putting the Torc on the neck, as virias (bracelets) in the textures, represented in the statues of the Lusitanian warriors:

MuseuNacArqu-GuerreirosLusitanos.jpg?163

A good reference of a Lusitanian warrior wearing linothorax is the archaeological find in the Municipality of Bande, of what would be a chess piece, in it besides the linothorax, the Lusitanian warrior wears a montfortino helmet, and fur gaiters, and cape. Also interesting to note the traditional side braids of hair and mustache: 

bandua.png

 

Other good image references are those of the Galician archaeologist and historian André Pena Graña: 

coriogalaico-4b-1.jpg

 

Edited by Ardworix
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Some models based on the Cantabra War. Several references to the weapons and costumes used by the Lusitanians comes from coins commemorating the Augustus period referring to the Roman victory over the Cantabrians, and that despite the name "cantabra", took over an alliance between Galaicos from the mouth of the Minho to today's Cantabria.

This is also because, according to Estrabon, all the cimbros (Lusitanians, Galaicos and Cantabrios) were dressed in the same way and used the same weapons.

web-Cantabria-Hombre-1-724x1024.jpg

web-Cantabria-Hombre-2-724x1024.jpg

web-Cantabria-Hombre-3-724x1024.jpg

Cantabria-Hombre-4-724x1024.jpg

web-Cantabria-Mujer-1-724x1024.jpg

web-Cantabria-Mujer-2-724x1024.jpg

web-Cantabria-Mujer-3-724x1024.jpg

 

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19 hours ago, Duileoga said:

Buenos días / tardes/ noches;

-Reconstrucción de un "Guerrero Lusitano"(que debería ser el de fase 3 , con algunas remodelaciones extra para hacer diferentes modelos);

935687906_guerrerolusitano1.png.9d349bb59f12bea7e62fb9557aa0ae03.png1898936031_guerrerolusitano2.png.6ef5cd5ad157eaf4cbccfee2d8812f45.png

-Muy parecido a la descripción de Diodorus Sciculus aportada por @Ardworix.

 

Disculpen las molestias*

Si, bueno, pero, colocaría como la 3a fase, guerreros doblando armaduras más pesadas, como la malla quota y la lorica squamata, bien como cascos de bronce (montfortinos y calcídico celtibérico).

Otro bueno modelo es este:

Una observación personal que noto es que muchas de las representaciones, en términos de apariencia, retratan a los lusitanos con barbas, pero los pocos hallazgos arqueológicos, registran a los lusitanos con bigotes, trenzas laterales y cabello largo.

lusitanian_viriato_01.jpg

lusitanian_viriato_02.jpg

lusitanian_viriato_03.jpg

lusitanian_viriato_04.jpg

lusitanian_viriato_05.jpg

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On 31/01/2016 at 10:32 PM, Ardworix said:

The scamatta lorica appears to have been originally of use of the Lusitanians, and later copied by the Romans as the "glaudius hispaniensis".

 

6 hours ago, Ardworix said:

como la malla quota y la lorica squamata

 

You claimed this several times but the reliefs you used as references are those:

On 27/10/2018 at 7:37 PM, Genava55 said:

image.thumb.png.91ddeb3f88a04e037a8fe1d96674c0be.png

Those reliefs are dated from Augustean and Tiberian periods. Those kinds of monument generally mixes the weapons from various foes and the reliability is low. For example multiple Gallo-Roman monuments depict amazon-like pelte alongside other weapons. Furthermore, even if this was indeed weapons taken from the Cantabrian wars, I wouldn't say that the Romans took the lorica squamata from the Lusitanians.

Edited by Genava55
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