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Wijitmaker
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5 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

Yes they should: they're riding on a vantage point.

realistically, this doesn't make any difference, except that you could see over closer objects like tall grass and bushes.

I don't really care about realism in this case: cavalry should have the same vision as infantry. I would give an exception for a dedicated "scout" cavalry in the future.

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On 26/07/2022 at 4:01 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4744

@wowgetoffyourcellphone what do you think? I would say even 5 meters would make a significant difference.

@chrstgtr @borg- @BreakfastBurrito_007too

cavalry should definitely not see farther than infantry.

more on the vision range change:

I made a mod for A25b so that anybody can see how these changes affect gameplay. After briefly testing things myself, it occurred to me that this would be a nerf to ranged units in general.

I would say it is an improvement. Let me know what you all think (especially balancers). 

oops. Here is the mod:

vision.zip

Edited by real_tabasco_sauce
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14 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4744

@wowgetoffyourcellphone what do you think? I would say even 5 meters would make a significant difference.

@chrstgtr @borg- @BreakfastBurrito_007too

cavalry should definitely not see farther than infantry.

Lower vision range also helps the player control their units better, because of a shorter auto-attack range. Units berserk after enemy units less. 

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To give an idea, in Delenda Est cavalry have a vision of 50 and infantry a vision of 44. Also, DE mods unitAI.js to alter (this.GetStance().respondChase) from 100% vision range to 85%. What this does is allow your units to see enemies at the edge of their vision range, but they don't automatically berserk. 

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9 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Also, DE mods unitAI.js to alter (this.GetStance().respondChase) from 100% vision range to 85%. What this does is allow your units to see enemies at the edge of their vision range, but they don't automatically berserk. 

Perhaps this range should also be part of stances and used for stuff like "Defensive".

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9 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

more on the vision range change:

I made a mod for A25b so that anybody can see how these changes affect gameplay. After briefly testing things myself, it occurred to me that this would be a nerf to ranged units in general.

I would say it is an improvement. Let me know what you all think (especially balancers). 

We went through a whole lot of those "improvements" in around a18 to a21 including vision range depending on phase and ended up roughly were we started off with, the old and current values. Unlike the "improved" version no one seem to have been highly annoyed since then. About time for the next round of disturbance ;)

Also low vision range makes it impossible to fully scout maps with slightly more complicated terrain. Having beautiful maps and only being able to see some small stripes of it is sort of a letdown. Guess I'll be forced to play revealed maps only in the future.

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1 hour ago, hyperion said:

We went through a whole lot of those "improvements" in around a18 to a21 including vision range depending on phase and ended up roughly were we started off with, the old and current values. Unlike the "improved" version no one seem to have been highly annoyed since then. About time for the next round of disturbance ;)

does this mean u are against changing it? Was A18 vision too small? too large? I was not annoyed by vision inn any of these alphas.

 

1 hour ago, hyperion said:

Also low vision range makes it impossible to fully scout maps with slightly more complicated terrain. Having beautiful maps and only being able to see some small stripes of it is sort of a letdown. Guess I'll be forced to play revealed maps only in the future.

Impossible, no. Just slightly more difficult (5 meters in fact). I think not seeing the entire map at once does not make the map any less beautiful.

Anyway, you seem to have missed that this is primarily a balance issue. Currently, cavalry can see 12 meters farther than infantry, which is a problem: 

It is too easy for cavalry units to avoid fights. They move much faster than infantry and can also see infantry before infantry can see them.

This is a way to address cavalry death balls in the late game.

 

The reason I lowered vision range (by 5 meters) is to bring more surprise into the game. 

Edited by real_tabasco_sauce
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here are 2 pics for illustration, if you don't want to download the mod. The top is with the mod, and the bottom is without.

 

Spoiler

1735777743_ScreenShot2022-07-27at9_07_20AM.thumb.png.a24a348d27b99028094d468e14ce3c8b.png846015279_ScreenShot2022-07-27at9_10_52AM.thumb.png.d6a528ac691dd002b13b3e30ee8dfb4d.png

notice how much more cavalry can see than infantry. If you have ever struggled to kill cavalry armies in the late game, this is a contributing factor.

Edited by real_tabasco_sauce
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What I would like to have is the opportunity to take a saved game, and use it as starting conditions for a new match. You can then change/rotate the player, alter difficulty or change some other game specific parameters.

This would be like turning the board in chess. It would allow to figure out whether in a specific situation you would be able to "save the situation" in the position of player xy or not by taking his position.

 

Edited by Frederick_1
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Another wish for user like me who play a game in lot of slices with breaks, what leads to lot of saves of a game, I would like to have the ability to delete the saves more efficient. At the moment I must separately delete every save  and always confirm.

Would even like something like a browser, where saves are grouped according where they belong to, and the possibility so see more information about a game, to decide whether to delete it or not.

 

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19 minutes ago, Frederick_1 said:

At the moment I must separately delete every save  and always confirm.

I do that outside of the game, with a filemanager. I just live with the "all or nothing" approach as the saves' names mean nothing and the internal UI is just too cumbersome. (And can't be used with the keyboard...)

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Suggestion to put a stop to the plague of rage-quitting/leaving games early on 0AD

The Issue

Hello all, after airing an idea to put a stop to rage-quitting and early leaving of games by players, it was suggested I come to the forums and post it here. 

I'm a casual 0AD player, and really returned to play after 4 years but I see the scourge of rage-quitting is still alive and well in the online game. It seems particularly prevalent amongst lower level players <1200 who may be new to the game or simply not want to lose their current rating. however, this has also happened to me when playing a highly rated prominent player within the 0ad community.

In my experience, it usually occurs during the latter stages of a game when a player knows he//she has lost, but instead of taking the hit and losing some insignificant rating points, they will leave the game without resigning. This costs the opposing player the point that they would have won, and it is particularly galling after a game that  may have lasted a long duration.

As a player attempting to climb from a low rating, this has personally cost me a lot of points. For example, I played three rated matches today against players who were <1200, although they were still rated higher than me. In two of those games,  the player left the game as it was clear I was getting the upper hand. 

In my opinion, something has to be done about this. I know players are encouraged to come on here and post then usernames of players who do not resign but this is far too much to ask. It has evidently not been effective and those who want to play casually will not do so.

The rage-quit issue turns away new players from the game and discourages older players too. It often takes a duration to find a game with someone near your player level due to the relatively small player-base and one may often invest a long time in single games - so to be confronted by a rage-quitting opponent is totally discouraging. It has often led to me taking long spans away from the game.

The Solution

I propose the 'Chess.com model' be introduced to 0AD multiplayer gameplay.

I call it the Chess.com model as the online chess website/app is somewhere that I have come across an aspect which may work for this game.

Anyone that plays chess on the app knows that each game has a winner and a loser (it is free if anyone wants to see what I'm talking about). You cannot rage-quit a game and have your rating unaffected.

This is not the case on 0AD. If a player leaves without resigning and the other player plays on until the end (when he wins), he is not rewarded with any points as the other player had left. Even if the player was rewarded, this still is not right as he may have to play for a significant time until he can destroy/conquer all the opposing player's structures.

If a player leaves a chess match without resigning on chess.com (e.g say they close the tab on PC or close the mobile application), the opposing player is rewarded the victory (and rating points) if the other player does not return to the game in a certain amount of time. I believe this period is a minute although it could be extended to five or a bit more for the purposes of 0AD.

This would allow players with internet problems or what not to return to the game while rage-quitters would be punished and the ethical player rewarded.

I  know sometimes players have emergencies or what not where they have to leave the game but there cannot be exceptions made for this either. At the end of the day, it is only rating points you lose, but if a player invests a lot of time in a game and is left with nothing for being the better user, this is not right.

Chess.com also allows players to leave a game in its very early stages using the 'abort' feature, without damaging their rating. This could be implemented in 0Ad too, although I feel it is not important.

I can articulate upon this more if needs be, but I would suggest anyone have a look at how Chess.com operates.

This suggestion may attract criticism and it may not be perfect, but I believe it would significantly benefit the game an reward ethical players. It may also work to keep new players scorned by bad experiences. I know nothing of game development but I suspect this feature may not be too difficult to implement.

Thank you for reading (my essay). I don't think I have posted before and I may never again as I am a very casual player but I feel this had to be said. Similar suggestions may have been posted here before and I apologize for my ignorance of any of those in advance. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Jackus said:

I know players are encouraged to come on here and post then usernames of players who do not resign but this is far too much to ask.

It would take considerably less time than writing an essay. Plus it would give you the points you earned. And maybe some feeling of satisfaction. Just sayin'.

 

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On 29/07/2022 at 5:28 PM, Jethew Goldgrub said:

Very need button to center camera on selected objects.

I'm not sure if "F" (follow) would get you there. But if you select them via a key or an icon double-hitting will get you there.

 

14 minutes ago, Jethew Goldgrub said:

It will be good if you add Pause after map loading and before game start.

I use the "Pause" key on my keyboard for that.

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