Goths and Germanics

[Keaton the Wise]

Hello all. Just a crazy idea here but what if there was a new Goths civilization? I think that Romans, Gauls, and Goths would be perfect for the realistic cultures for the game.

[niektb]

Goths are not in the timespan 500 BC - 1 BC, but this civ is going to be implemented in a mod called 1,000 AD or Millennium AD. (See the subforum "Game Modifications")

Edited December 3, 2013 by niektb

[newcivs]

the goths gonna be implemented on mod called 1000AD "for land and money"

the germanics on 0AD part 2 "Empires Beseiged"

[greycat]

Romans did not differentiate between Celts and Germans until around the time of Caesar. Some Celts were Germanic like the Belgae. The Greeks called the Celts Galatians for the place they invaded, which also included a Belgic tribe.

Edited December 3, 2013 by greycat

[newcivs]

Romans did not differentiate between Celts and Germans until around the time of Caesar. Some Celts were Germanic like the Belgae. The Greeks called the Celts Galatians for the place they invaded, which also included a Belgic tribe.

are you saying the the germanics were "representated" by celtic faction?

[greycat]

At least some Celtic/Galation tribes have Germanic ancestry. The Belgae are believed to have come before the Germanic migration.

[greycat]

are you saying the the germanics were "representated" by celtic faction?

In the sense that the idea of a German was not yet invented by Romans until the end period of game, you could look at that way. Romans did deal with a tribe called the Teutons which came to be another name for German. The problem as that even the Teuton tribe could have been Celtic.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1 : a member of an ancient probably Germanic or Celtic people

Edited December 3, 2013 by greycat

[newcivs]

In the sense that the idea of a German was not yet invented by Romans until the end period of game, you could look at that way. Romans did deal with a tribe called the Teutons which came to be another name for German. The problem as that even the Teuton tribe could have been Celtic.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1 : a member of an ancient probably Germanic or Celtic people

that means the if i want a "personal" germanic faction in only need disable the fortresses??, or put the brit fortress but smaller and weaker?

[greycat]

I would like to make some kind of mod if it is not beyond my capabilities.

[greycat]

Some differences off hand I can think of are they would not have druids, They didn't live in cities like the Gauls... so probably not a fortress like you said. I will try to come up with a better outline but I should do some more research first.

Edited December 3, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

This picture is Teutoburg Forest 9AD but it is a good representation of how they dressed at least around the same time. They are of the Suebi tribe with the Suebian knot in hair.

Edited December 3, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

Germanic wars with Rome within time frame of game.

• Siege of Olbia, c. 220 BCE
• Cimbrian War, 113–101 BCE
  • Battle of Noreia 112 BCE^[1]
  • Battle of Agen 107 BCE^[2]
  • Battle of Arausio 105 BCE
  • Battle of Aquae Sextiae 102 BCE
  • Battle of Vercellae 101 BCE^[3]
• Battle of Vosges 58 BCE
• Battle of the Sabis 57 BCE
• clades Lolliana 16 BCE
• Battle of the Lupia River 11 BCE

Edited December 3, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

If we did the Belgae (Gallo-Germanic) they would be more Celtic and they also had conflict with Rome.

(Talking about the Gallic tribes)

"Of all these, the Belgae are the bravest, because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind; and they are the nearest to the Germans, who dwell beyond the Rhine, with whom they are continually waging war; for which reason the Helvetii also surpass the rest of the Gauls in valor, as they contend with the Germans in almost daily battles, when they either repel them from their own territories, or themselves wage war on their frontiers.

Source: The Gallic Wars by Julius Caesar

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think the major reason we're holding off on the Germanics until Part 2 is that we can't throw every culture into Part 1. Also, the Germans were such a large part of Rome's eventual fall that they fit thematically better in Part 2. Also, while the Romans and other cultures fought the Germans in Part 1's time frame, their activities in the Part 2 timeframe were so momentous it's just better to have them in Part 2 instead.

I think we could have up to 3 Germanics in Part 2, and maybe 1 Celto-Germanic (Belgians would be my pick), like how the Macedonians straddle the Greek and Successors "cultures" in Part 1. So, Belgians would have some textures and models from both the Gauls and Germans art sets and probably share some bonuses from each.

[greycat]

I think the major reason we're holding off on the Germanics until Part 2 is that we can't throw every culture into Part 1. Also, the Germans were such a large part of Rome's eventual fall that they fit thematically better in Part 2. Also, while the Romans and other cultures fought the Germans in Part 1's time frame, their activities in the Part 2 timeframe were so momentous it's just better to have them in Part 2 instead.

I think we could have up to 3 Germanics in Part 2, and maybe 1 Celto-Germanic (Belgians would be my pick), like how the Macedonians straddle the Greek and Successors "cultures" in Part 1. So, Belgians would have some textures and models from both the Gauls and Germans art sets and probably share some bonuses from each.

This makes sense. Also they didn't really notice they were different than the Celts until the end period of game.

[niektb]

I would like to make some kind of mod if it is not beyond my capabilities.

You could certainty join one (we, from 1,000 AD, are looking for extra personnel)

[oshron]

I think the major reason we're holding off on the Germanics until Part 2 is that we can't throw every culture into Part 1. Also, the Germans were such a large part of Rome's eventual fall that they fit thematically better in Part 2. Also, while the Romans and other cultures fought the Germans in Part 1's time frame, their activities in the Part 2 timeframe were so momentous it's just better to have them in Part 2 instead.

I think we could have up to 3 Germanics in Part 2, and maybe 1 Celto-Germanic (Belgians would be my pick), like how the Macedonians straddle the Greek and Successors "cultures" in Part 1. So, Belgians would have some textures and models from both the Gauls and Germans art sets and probably share some bonuses from each.

there's one thing that i keep forgetting: is Part 2 planned to essentially be an expansion pack or a separate game, e.g., could civs from each one be present in the same random map/scenario as the other?

[greycat]

You could certainty join one (we, from 1,000 AD, are looking for extra personnel)

That sounds interesting. I will check it out.

[feneur]

there's one thing that i keep forgetting: is Part 2 planned to essentially be an expansion pack or a separate game, e.g., could civs from each one be present in the same random map/scenario as the other?

I would say both Technically it will most likely be a completely separate game, but we do intend to include the civs from part one. So if any new features are added new civs should also be able to make use of them, you should be able to play with a part 1 civ against a part 2 civ, etc.

[Rodmar]

Germanic wars with Rome within time frame of game.

Nice list, but you forgot the campaign before Teutoburg! They even built towns!

No great battles, because the Germans were less populous, less organized and not unified at all ; no siege because there probably wasn't any town to besiege. No glory to win for the Emperor, except pacification.

So, just call it a "Campaign to Germania Magna" or "Campaign for the Weser and the Elbe" or :

Early Occupation of Germania 12 B.C. - 2 B.C.*

(Drusus, Tiberus, Ahenobarbus)

* defeat of the Hermunduri, or 3 A.D., before Tiberus' return to Germania.

This really makes me think we should have at least a Germanic sub-faction for period 1 (one century of intermittent wars).

For period 2, imo, the major problem is that there are no town to build: only 100-pop villages, or smaller, and war/migrant parties. We ought to be very imaginative to devise the building and the economy! When barbarian kingdoms are established and for lette peoples, i.e. quite late in the period 2, we have... (Gallo-)Roman towns for them to use or reuse, and traditional Germanic farms.

I really think it is even more a nightmare than as if you would try and implement Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) sedentary peoples : hut, house, farmstead, noble house, forge, shaman's hut, dock?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Rodmar

[newcivs]

Nice list, but you forgot the campaign before Teutoburg! They even built towns!

No great battles, because the Germans were less populous, less organized and not unified at all ; no siege because there probably wasn't any town to besiege. No glory to win for the Emperor, except pacification.

So, just call it a "Campaign to Germania Magna" or "Campaign for the Weser and the Elbe" or :

Early Occupation of Germania 12 B.C. - 2 B.C.*

(Drusus, Tiberus, Ahenobarbus)

* defeat of the Hermunduri, or 3 A.D., before Tiberus' return to Germania.

This really makes me think we should have at least a Germanic sub-faction for period 1 (one century of intermittent wars).

For period 2, imo, the major problem is that there are no town to build: only 100-pop villages, or smaller, and war/migrant parties. We ought to be very imaginative to devise the building and the economy! When barbarian kingdoms are established and for lette peoples, i.e. quite late in the period 2, we have... (Gallo-)Roman towns for them to use or reuse, and traditional Germanic farms.

I really think it is even more a nightmare than as if you would try and implement Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) sedentary peoples : hut, house, farmstead, noble house, forge, shaman's hut, dock?

no, the had build 2 cities "as far we know"

* Haltern

* and other city

this is my evidence

http://youtu.be/NdKUiX61i9g

[Rodmar]

You mean this Haltern ?

I agree there are more than just wooden houses, but I was talking about the German !