Scythia

[Sighvatr]

I was just thinking about the Scythians as a faction in 0 A.D. and I think the Scythians should have the ability to unpack/pack their buildings. When setting a building to unpack, the packed building loses its territory line. Unpacking a Scythian building will reproduce a territory line. This is helpful because the Scythians can move their entire city out of potential danger. Similar to the building wagons in Age of Empires 3, you click a building to build and highlight an area where the building is going to unpack.

@unarmed: It would be too much micromanagement to set citizen soldiers to unpack/pack a building, so I think it would be easier if a player could press a pack/unpack button. Sort of similar to the catapult in 0 A.D. or like a factory wagon in Age of Empires 3. I also disagree on forbidding units and buildings. The buildings that cost purely stone like Fortresses, Stone Walls, and Towers will not have the ability to pack, and those buildings will decay without an unpacked adjacent town centre.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Sighvatr

[Lion.Kanzen]

Not they settlement can be stationery if before they can build wallls. May be they can Raze other civ centers or upgrade they Civ center into main city center. The gameplay of all Nomad civilizations must be the same. Capture enemy civ center o upgrade to stationary base, is complicate but the best way to have walls is that, otherwise they can build palisades and when they move abandon palisades.

[Sighvatr]

I am not too sure what you mean by the difference between civ center and main civ center? I would just keep it simple and grant most buildings the ability to pack and unpack. Otherwise the Scythians will seem too complicated and uncomfortable of a faction to play as.

[Lion.Kanzen]

One is mobile and the other not, and the mobile can be more weaker, the main civic center is more like a Capital city is building in stone, very strong to rushing attacks. How I was say is complicated. This civilization can be good attacking faster, training very faster to defend this mobile buildings. If you play Starcraft is like a Terran Command Center.

[Unarmed]

Good to see more thinking about the Scythians. And we also get some good ideas how to make other nomad factions.

@unarmed: It would be too much micromanagement to set citizen soldiers to unpack/pack a building, so I think it would be easier if a player could press a pack/unpack button. Sort of similar to the catapult in 0 A.D. or like a factory wagon in Age of Empires 3. I also disagree on forbidding units and buildings. The buildings that cost purely stone like Fortresses, Stone Walls, and Towers will not have the ability to pack, and those buildings will decay without an unpacked adjacent town centre.

I agree with your first point. The second, I would give them fortresses (like the one picture in this thread), but not watchtowers or walls since I don't think they had them. If they had them in reality, they can have them.

One is mobile and the other not, and the mobile can be more weaker, the main civic center is more like a Capital city is building in stone, very strong to rushing attacks. How I was say is complicated. This civilization can be good attacking faster, training very faster to defend this mobile buildings. If you play Starcraft is like a Terran Command Center.

This is kind of what I had in mind, but better. One question:

-should the mobile one be replaceable/buildable? I'm thinking of one at the start and that you can't build another one (except for the static main civic center, which will be buildable in the next phase)

And if you have the mobile civic building (not have it in game, but I mean like the faction meganic), I think they should get acces to the farmstead and mill, but instead get these in their settle down phase (some Scythians settled down and farmed in reality, though there is debate if these were real Scythians).

I think the settle down is also necessary. A nomad faction early game works, but late game I think it would be very hard to make it work.

Does anybody know how Scythians get their food? I know some farmed (which they should have acces to in the settle down phase), but:

-did they hunt and gather mainly or/and also herd sheep/other animals?

If so, this type of gathering should be in their nomadic phase. Maybe they should have bonuses collecting food and hunting.

[Loki1950]

They also herded horses(obviously),cattle and sheep,they also did tend to stay in one area till hunting and grazing was depleted.

Enjoy the Choice

[Mqhv]

Being on the move makes it hard to defend yourself against raids, making nomadic civs an easy target late in the game. Being nomadic means no fortified walls or other heavy defenses, so that requires a solution.

I don't know if the walls could also be unpacked and packed and have the apperance of the iberian circle walls of the beginning in the scenario mode but made of wood and smaller. This would protect the main buildings.

Besides, I think that they don't need as many buildings as the other factions: A civic center for citizens and gathering and a building where produce units and technologies are the most important ones.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Mqhv

[dvangennip]

I don't know if the walls could also be unpacked and packed and have the apperance of the iberian circle walls of the beginning in the scenario mode but made of wood and smaller. This would protect the main buildings.

Besides, I think that they don't need as many buildings as the other factions: A civic center for citizens and gathering and a building where produce units and technologies are the most important ones.

I think movable walls is not very realistic. Technically I suppose nomadic tribes could do it, but since everything can be moved it's easier to flee from danger than to count on walls for protection. It seems someone could look into the history of this. Practically, I suggest using palisades but no walls. This gives a need for different tactics with nomadic civs (although I don't know how often walls are used in multiplayer, so maybe it isn't much of a change).

[Mqhv]

I think movable walls is not very realistic. Technically I suppose nomadic tribes could do it, but since everything can be moved it's easier to flee from danger than to count on walls for protection. It seems someone could look into the history of this. Practically, I suggest using palisades but no walls. This gives a need for different tactics with nomadic civs (although I don't know how often walls are used in multiplayer, so maybe it isn't much of a change).

I think you are right. It was only an idea to counteract the weakness when defending the buildings which probably will be weaker because they are made of weaker materials.

Anyway the main point is to know if the Scythians used walls and how they were made.

[shataq]

Although not scythians, but Mongols, this ancient warfare is similar. Scythians are Reapers and harvest death.

Scythian not one nation, many tribes federation. Forms same members as 24 Hun tribes federations, for example: Kaza-hun: Hun, Széki-hun: Székely, Türk, Jazig: Jász, Lett, Bolgár, Manysi, Kabar, Úz: Magyar, Mari, Tatár, Mongol, Cuman: Kun, Manzsu, Suoma, Vót, Baskir, Uygur, Oghur: Avar, Észt, Komi, Csuvasz, Vepsze, Mordvin

Nomadic life not means they didn't move into little towns in winter, they had to produce the animal's food besides towns.There was wall around nomad cities, like Troy.

Horseman nomadic nations had light and heavy armors, weapons, don't forget scythian chariots!

Edited July 20, 2013 by shataq

[shataq]

http://fc00.devianta...ura-d4sanhw.jpg

I suggest the nation symbol Ame Kamura godness, because deer symbol is more hungarian, magicdeer is hungarian legend.

But falcon is similar hungarian Turul, more nation use.

And more one suggest to wonder: legendary hero Attila king use mobil tree town.

Edited July 20, 2013 by shataq

[Bloc]

Scythia would be really nice in my opinion but I read some "Hun and sarmatian" words on the first pages.Is this Part II going to be something like Rome Total War:Barbarian Invasion DLC?

[Nolanjoker]

be better even, hahaha, see all features that civilizations have to the player. mobile town centers, wow. like age of empires 3

[AlexN]

 

As Scythians lived in special tents called yurts, their civ center and/or houses could be yurts.

Yurts as other tents need to be set up, so maybe this could work the same way as catapults and ballistas do now.

 

Exactly what I thought about. Unfold a yurt and build other units there, fold it and move it anywhere. The interesting question is: can yurts be placed within borders of another civilization?

[Prodigal Son]

My tech-tree for a Scythian Civ for inspiration (I use it for a Warcraft 3 ancient RTS map, so a few things won't fit for 0 A.D. and some other can't be as detailed as I'd wish)

The Scythians field powerful cavalry and archers. They have the weakest and faster to build structures, which also can pack on horseback and redeploy.

UNITS INFANTRY

• Scythian Axeman (swordsman alternative)
• Scythian Skirmisher (can hide during the night)
• Scythian Archer
• Scythian Bosphoran Hoplite (bonus versus cavalry, unlockable)

CAVALRY

• Scythian Light Cavalry (cavalry skirmisher)
• Scythian Lancer (heavy cavalry)
• Scythian Cataphract (heavy cavalry, has command aura - champion unit)
• Scythian Horse Archer

SUPPORT UNITS

• Scythian Villager
• Scythian Pack Horse

SIEGE

• Scythian Bosphoran Ballista (unlockable)

STRUCTURES

• Civ Center
  • Trains: Scythian Villager, Scythian Pack Horse
  • Techs: Town Phase (2 tiers, phase up), Loom (Villager, hit points), Steppe Hardiness (Organic units, regeneration, Scythians only), Urbanization (Structures, hit point and armor, disables the pack ability and allows the recruitment of hoplites and ballistas, Scythians only)
  • Other: New ones can only be upgraded from colonies, which are only buildable on capturable settlements. Garrison Workers. Adds 100 population. Cannot move unlike other Scythian structures.

• Watch Tower
  • Techs: Guard Tower (Watch Tower, enables attack/hit
    points), Carrier Pigeons (tower, line of sight), Town Watch (2 tiers,
    structure, line of sight)
  • Other: Detects hidden units.

• Storehouse
  • Techs: Improved Mining (3 tiers), Improved Lumber
    Harvesting (3 tiers), Improved Construction (3 tiers), Handcart (2
    tiers, Villager speed)
  • Other: Lumber dropsit

• Barracks
  • Trains: Scythian Axeman, Scythian Skirmisher, Scythian Bosphoran Hoplite
  • Techs: Defensive/Guerrilla/Offensive Core Infantry (choice tech)
• Archery Range
  • Trains: Scythian Archer, Scythian Bosphoran Ballista
  • Techs: Marksmanship (Archer damage), Fire Arrows
    (Archer/Structure/Ship extra damage vs Structures/Ships/Siege),
    Composite Bow (Archer, range)

• Forge
  • Techs: Weapon Forging (3 tiers, melee damage), Missile Forging (3 tiers, ranged damage), Armorcrafting (3 tiers, heavyarmor), Leatherworking (3 tiers, light armor), Footwear (infantry speed)

• Market
  • Techs: Coinage (periodic income per ally)
  • Other: Exchange Resources

• Stables
  • Trains: Scythian Horse Archer, Scythian Lancer, Scythian Light Cavalry, Scythian Catafract
  • Techs: Envenomed Arrows (Horse Archer, damage over time, Scythians only), Full Scalemail (Cataphract, armor but reduced speed, Scythians only), Heavy/Swift Horses (choice tech, hit points or speed)

CIV SPECIALS

• No capturing or importing of horses needed to build Stables.
• Arrow firing units and structures have +200 range (under consideration, might keep this as a default bonus or give them the Composite Bow tech)
• Pack Horses build most of the structures and those structures can pack
  back on horseback to be redeployed as any structure among those.
• Packable Buildings have short build times (the pack horse trains slower
  than villagers though balance it) but also have about 50% less hit
  points. Packable Buildings are free (besides the pack horse cost)
• No farms. 100 food supply provided with each Civ Center.
• Urbanization strengthens Scythian buildings and allows the training of some extra units, but disables the ability to pack back structures.

OVERVIEW

• Infantry: Weak. Average late game.
• Missile units: Strong. Most techs.
• Cavalry: Excellent. All troop types (besides Elephants), Many techs and easy access.
• Siege: Weak. Average late game.
• Economy: Above Average. Easy population management and fast-built redeployable structures.
• Structures: Weak. Almost average late game
• Navy: No special techs for hired ships. Extra range due to Composite Bows.

Format shamelessly stolen from the design document of the free indie RTS 0 A.D. Both for it's usefulness and as a chance to promote it.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Mega Mania]

Will the Scythians included in the set of fraction?

Faction Symbol

Infantry

Steppe spearmen (inf.Spear)

Scythian axes (inf.Axe)

Scythian Skirmisher (Inf.Jav)

Steppe foot archers (Inf.Bow)

Scythian archers-Hellenic (Inf.Bow)

Cavalry

Skirmish Cavalry (Cav.Jav)

Steppe horsemen (Cav.Spear)

Scythian heavy cavalry (Cav.Spear or Cav. Sword)

Champions

Scythian-Hellenic hoplites

Bodyguards Scythian king

The cavalry of the Royal Scythians

Scythian royal infantry

Heroes

King Athey

Siege

Ram

Ships

Rook

Special Buildings

Not found

Wonder

Stone grave Scythians (they say there kept most powerful and terrible weapons of the world)

Is these stuff legal?

[greycat]

Greek depiction of Scythion archer

[greycat]

Scythions at time of Alexander The Great and his campaigns.

Edited November 13, 2013 by greycat

[Rodmar]

I feel like greycat is right here. But it really depends on what you call Scythian/Getes...

Cataphractes were Samartan and Massagetes (then Alaans). Western Scythian had cavalry archers only as it seems (or an hybrid light spear/archer cavalry). Pisistratus' Scythian archers were equipped with composite bow and hand-axe. In fact, it looks like all Scythians were archers before hellenization.

For period 1 (500 BC - 0 AD), Samartan would be unknown.

For period 2, you could introduce heavy armored cavalry and female warrior (egalitarian Samartan, not western Scythian).

[Prodigal Son]

Yes, it depends on what you call Scythians and I think sources have a variety on this. My Scythians are somewhat generic steppe people (excluding Mongols and Huns), since Warcraft style and model limitations won't allow for accurate details anyway. The cataphract was probably introduced to the Eastern and Hellenistic armies as an influence from the various steppe people well before AD though. Even in 480 BC at the battle of Plataea the Persians had at least some fully armored mounted officer(s), so it's highly possible that steppe tribes had heavily armored cavalry even earlier.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Wesley]

So many dead picture links, sad,  Good work. 

I would throw in a few things:

1. Change the villager to a tributary the bulk of the workers paid tributes (Taxes) to the scythians but were not strictly slaves or peasants. They were allowed self defence.
2. Have the pack horse pick up resources from workers, hold 4 times as much as a worker and path back to drop point when full. 
3. The wonder should be a kurgan as suggested but with a statue of a horse and rider on top.  
4. The fortress should be a raised platform with spikes and ramps with yurts on top. Corner stone towers but mainly grass and dirt. 
5. Herding/ Animal breeding should be added. A simple deer feeder/ manger buildable on claimed and neutral territory spawns one or 2 deer over time. Any other farmable animal in 5 tiles is also copied at the same rate. Thus you have renewable huntables with deer as the default.

Note: nomadic people can and do farm by sending someone ahead to sow seeds in disturbed ground. Flood, Fire and trampling by animals creates disturbed ground. Gameplay wise this means perfectly normal 0 AD farms. However they require some food to create and less wood. With the ability to place them on allied territory from the start. 

Avoiding micro with nomadism will be important. Simply allowing most of the resources to go back to the pool when the player demolishes something plus fast build speeds for all but the fortress, the temple and the wonder would do the job. Building houses, (yurts, cone tents) on allied territory allowable once market is up.

[Yes I know I'm posting on an old topic. ]   

Edited March 23, 2017 by Wesley