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Ultimate Aurelian

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Posts posted by Ultimate Aurelian

  1. 2 hours ago, MrLux said:

    It's interesting. Do you have a particular reason for no 2 floors ?

     

    At least from the references i have; it does not seem like something iron age Germanics really used.

    So probably better to avoid it, except maybe for fortress.

  2. 6 hours ago, Alar1k said:

    There should be an option to upgrade Iberian slingers and make them better slingers than Gaul/Athenian/Ptole  - I have seen from a few forums that there are proposals to make Iberian slingers stand out for being better then other civ slingers from historical perspecitve so I put this proposal like this:
    a
    Make a tech at phase 2 or 3 that would add +2 crush damage and change the price from 30 stone to 30 metal for slingers and name the tech "Metal missiles"


    This would be like an archery tradition but for slingers - it should also take into account Iberian mercenary slingers for Carthage

     

    One thing to keep in mind is Balearics were a separate people from Iberians.

    Iberians themselves were not particularly good with slings; they use javelins way more.

     

    • Like 1
  3. 50 minutes ago, badosu said:

    As far as I know that's true for the Hastati (romans) but I'm not sure there are references to other civilizations.

    Srill would definitely be cool for swordsmen to throw pilla.

    It was done by Celts and Iberians too.

    In EB most of their infantry units throw spears.

     

    • Thanks 1
  4. 1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

    I think this analysis comes back time to time here. Personally I agree, this is a gamey choice from a classical rock paper scissors system, it could be justified if it worked but I think it brings more issues than it solves.

    As Thorfinn indicated, historically the ability to withstand against cavalry depended on the formation. I think this is a critical point that should be included in the gameplay design for the future.

    Since weapon swapping is not in the engine, i feel swordsmen having similar stats to ranged units might be a good abstraction.

    Since historically most swordsmen were sort of heavy skirmishers that charged after throwing.

  5. 3 hours ago, Genava55 said:

    @wackyserious @Ultimate Aurelian Probably we should make an exception for heroes about the scaled armor. I don't think scale+mail is credible but a metallic scale armor is not impossible for the highest level of society.

    For the two swords and the shield hold by the arm, maybe it should be replaced by a javelin held with the shield on the same hand:

    If so instead of the ''scale apron'' (Misinterpreted cloth armor), it would be better to make it like Carthaginian scale armor (Idea being it was bought from their allies)

    Caros and Viriato could have mail (It was used by Lusitanians and Celtiberians).

    Indibil could get the scale one (Bronze pectorals were outdated in his time from what i read.).

  6. 6 hours ago, wackyserious said:

    @Ultimate Aurelian any reference for the possible tattoo patterns they used for their arms?

    Based on what i read they were not tattoos but warpaint.

    The vase was found in an Edetani site.

    Similar paint may have been used in Celtiberia; article says paste was Orange, although most depictions have ig as black paint (Vase is monochromatic so it may have been a color other than black)

    https://dc.uwm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=ekeltoi

    Visual references (Have inaccurate scale armor, only using them as example for paint):

    jinete-edetano.png 

    4bff85d7b2272b4f91a6431c9781697a1fe223b1

    27-0.jpg

    • Like 1
  7. 15 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

    Does it also imply that the headgear worn in the depiction could also be some sort of organic head protection?

    Likely, since they did not use scale.

    Probably a cloth helmet with feather crest.

    I think it may have looked like Osuna Helmet but shorter without neck flap.

    madrid-spain-november-10-2017-young-iber

     

    tumblr_inline_ns1qbuZbzH1rtdfb6_540.jpg

     

    • Thanks 1
  8. One question is what is the white line in the middle of the arm.

    The more common interpretation is that he is wearing a sleeveless garment with some kind of bracelet.

    Or maybe a short sleeved tunic and the line is the end of the sleeve who is painted on a different color ?

    Perhaps a mix of both (Bracelete worn near the sleeve).

    EhMrDiBWAAAdtlk?format=png&name=900x900

    • Like 1
  9. 39 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

    I thought it was some sort of animal hide, like another form of protection. So that was fabric, let me change it and lighten it a bit, more like a cream toned fabric.

    He is wearing a padded armor, so a leather tunic under that  would be a bit redundant.

    The part on the feet can still be brown (boots and hide greaves  were worn in Celtibeira).

    Long sleeves in some depictions of Iberians are from the same vase as ''scale armor''.

    Considering how the whole arm including e hand is in black; it is more likely that it is portraying bodypaint on the arms.

    NWNPH57XQPNFPTSZVZJUM3UPWQ.jpg

     

    • Thanks 1
  10. 12 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

    Yeah, the bottom part was an interpretation of an elaborately woven fabric when zoomed in. I could try and experiment for more possible interpretations.

    Greek armor could have been possibly imported or looted right? There are nearby Greek trading outposts on the coast by that period. So it is safe to use linothorax or even greek fashioned pteruges? The same way applies for Celtic chainmail right?

    I think it's possible to have mail and linothorax in small numbers for high ranking Iberian units.

    Cart mercenaries could have some as well.

    A couple examples from EB twitter:

    EVoDoqVUUAQzQBk?format=jpg&name=medium

    EaJagiNXkAA3nlr?format=jpg&name=large

     

    EaJadfOXQAAkFAR?format=jpg&name=large

     

    EaOP8H4WsAAWXzT?format=jpg&name=medium

    • Thanks 1
  11. 28 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

    102720 - Iberians (2).jpg

    An interpretation of the aforementioned organic armor.

    There is no evidence for mail skirt (only use of mail in region was by Celtiberians, who wore normal mail shirts) more likely the lower part was organic as well, a sort of fringe or Pteryges.

    The idea of making your waist more protected than your chest, does not make much sense.

  12. 5 hours ago, Duileoga said:

     

    Tenía en mente que la facción de los "Xiongnu" fuera totalmente nómada (que todos sus edificios pudieran ser transportados de un lado a otro del mapa) y creo que para la maravilla se puede poner mejor un "Ovöö " [hipotético]que se montara y se desmontara

     

    I am not sure if mobile building mechanic for nomads will be kept.

    DE Scythians for example will have weak immobile buildings and no territory.

    • Like 1
    • Sad 1
  13. 3 hours ago, Duileoga said:

    Edificios especiales (5)

    1."Maravilla"(Gran tienda ceremonial y religiosa) ;------------------------------------( Ger-Shasin)

    For wonder you could use Tongwancheng city or burial mound (Like in Sundiata's suggestion):

    Quote

    Wouldn't it make sense for such an explicitly horse-orientated culture to have (a simple) cav-unit right off the bat?

     

    As for possible wonder to potentially fully integrate Xiongnu as a playable civ, I was thinking about the Xiongnu Kurgans. They built many of these Tumuli, or burial mounds, that were typically square shaped, but also round I believe. Surrounded by a circle or square of rough stones, resembling mini-menhirs. One burial mound isn't impressive, but see how the Kushites integrated those small pyramids. You could build up to 5 of them, and that could be the "wonder requirement" for Xiongnu. Instead of one major monument, a few burial mounds, typical of steppe-nomads. Images of various Steppe Tumuli, belonging to Sarmatians, Scythians and Xiongnu:

      Reveal hidden contents

    (excavated) square, Xiongu Kurgans:

    e485396a7c2868bea95d93ed24bd84b6.thumb.jpg.71de456dce10366c1948dcf8ae6aa4e2.jpg

    golmod2plan2.jpg.0e7fe5fb4fda77db26ca6ec8bc91fccb.jpg

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    Remains of a fine Han Chinese horse-drawn cart (with parasol) in a Xiongnu Kurgan

    tsaraamchariot-1.jpg.cb4608ed3e9208a8b94b62cb778aaeb0.jpg

     

    For a hero?

    6968399.jpg.4496080aad9807ee681968771d91f5df.jpg

     

    The Tumuli of Scythians / Sarmatians

    AlexandropolKurganBeforeExcavation1852-6.gif.59ae4df7f1206083ec005f4af848d473.gif

    SalbykKurgan221201683.jpg.c52ceeeeae5f930562d92fbd99ec86e4.jpg

    Kurhan_in_Perepyat-Ukraine.gif.99a04a132988a0b5f9038238198e64ad.gif

     

     

     

    Another thing to check out would be Tongwancheng, or Tongwan City, the capital city of the Southern Xiongnu, built by the Xia Kingdom under Helian Bobo, around 419. From Wikipedia: 

    "The Great Wall of China was built to contain the Xiongnu threat, and Tongwancheng was the main Xiongnu capital that stood on other side of that wall. The city was largely of wood construction and had very thick outer walls which were made white with white clay earth and powdered rice. From a distance the white city was said to have had the appearance of a giant ship. At its centre the city had a lake. Jin Shu gives us a contemporary eyewitness description of the city...

    "The hill is beautiful, in front of it the plain is wide, and around this there is a lake of pure water. I have wandered in many places, but I have not seen a land whose beauty can compare with that of this place".

    At its height the population was around 10,000, likely to have been greatly supplemented by an encircling encampment of nomadic kin groups at certain times of the year. White cities were generally ceremonial and status centres built following conquest, rather than outright military positions, white being a blessed colour for the Xiongnu. Yet the thickness of the walls was certainly required since the city was originally built at a time of perpetual warfare. The threat was also internal as well as from the Chinese - for instance, Helian Bobo was attacked with an army by his deputy Helian Gui in 424 following a dynastic dispute."

    Images of the ruins of Tongwancheng, the great Xiongnu city:

      Reveal hidden contents

    001fd04ceb6e15dbcaef08.jpg.13b178b7959bff77b4a1df2486299c6a.jpg

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    http://www.silkroadfoundation.org/toc/index.html

    http://www.chinauniquetour.com/html/Xian/201727/arts-7798.html

     

    • Thanks 1
  14. On 9/29/2020 at 8:09 AM, Duileoga said:

    Buenas @Sundiata

    Estoy de acuerdo , además creo que si se hacen primero los Tracios (aún con alguna influencia helenística) luego se podrían añadir más elementos de estilo griego (edificios y unidades ) y a esos elementos nuevos se les incorporaría a los Odrisios y entonces tendríamos dos facciones nuevas y originales.

    Disculpe las molestias*

    Imo instead of two Thrace factions, it would better to make Odrysians (More hellenized) and Dacians (More ''barbarian'' influenced by Celts and Scythians).

    For Odrysian roster maybe something like this:

    Infantry spearman

    Infantry swordsman

    Special Romphaia infantryman

    Infantry javelinist

    Infantry archer

    Cavalry javelinist

    Cavalry spearman

    Champion Noble Hoplite

    Champion javelin cavalry (when weapon switching is added could also use sword)

    Mercenary Getae horse archer

    Mercenary heavy peltast from a hellenized tribe (Paeonian, Agrianian)

    Bastarnae mercenary (cavalry swordsman?)

  15. On 9/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, Duileoga said:

    Como no encontré símbolos concretos para las características del juego me inspiré en un estandarte para conseguir un posible símbolo, y creé uno ;

    2100556473_Estandarte(remodelado).thumb.jpg.7b91638bd74bca78d2bfd04e7279ef82.jpg

     

     Could also use a Griffin like in EB:

    turmoilinphlava.jpg
     

    Also my understanding is that Parthian domes were rarer than in later periods and used for more important buildings.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Persian_domes#Pre-Islamic_period

     

    • Like 1
  16. 4 hours ago, av93 said:

    (I would give them also a skirmisher champion, instead of the not historic double sword man. (they should be the ultimate javelineer faction, because Iberian ambushers fit more Lusitanians rather than Iberians, regarding some sources that I've read in the past)

    There is a thread for reworking Briton roster; it adds Irish champion skirmisher, and makes double swordsman a champion swordsman with shield.

     

    • Like 1
  17. On 1/4/2020 at 11:13 PM, wackyserious said:

    Elite rank scutarii/scutarius

    010520 - Iberians (2).jpg

     

    On 1/5/2020 at 7:59 PM, wackyserious said:

     

    img04.jpg

     

    I looked up the Iberian scale armors, only source seems to be this vase (Which may be quilted armor).

    ca.png

    Thread on EB forum regarding the topic:

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?797309-Iberian-Linen-armor

    Quote in the thread, from a historian:

    Spoiler

    “The passive defensive weapons depicted on the Vessel (armour, helmets) present other problems. The horses on this vessel are represented using a conventional filler pattern to indicate their coat, which was previously misinterpreted by A. McBride, a great foreign artist but one with little knowledge about Hispanic archaeological realities, as scale or mail armour. His magnificent drawings were later imitated by others (for example, Alcaide and Vela) and have created—above all among amateurs— the idea of a cataphract “armoured” cavalry, which never existed in Iberia, nor in all the Mediterranean region in this period. Even in the far-off Persian world, during this period there was only some much lighter barding in use.

    All the figures on the Vessel wear a type of coselete (light armour vest), perhaps with sleeves made from another material. The part which covers the chest (sometimes down to the diaphragm, sometimes to the belly) is covered with a scaled pattern which has caused many to think of metallic protection. Moreover, the lower abdomen is covered with what, without doubt, appears to be pteryges, hanging strips of organic material (usually leather or linen) which gave the wearer a certain degree of protection without restricting their movement. They seem to be wearing some type of metallic armour of which there were a great variety in use from Greece to the south of Gall via Italy. The majority of those who support this theory – including the aforementioned artist– believe that the Vessel depicts scaled armour. This type of armour was usually made up of small plates, normally made of bronze, sewn onto a textile support. It is a type of armour well-known in the western Mediterranean and Asia from the Bronze Age, and to a far lesser extent in Greece during the Iron Age. However, in Iberia (as in the Celtic world) no scaled armour of this type is known, nor represented on other media (sculptures, offerings, or even other ceramics). It was rare even in Italy, and in the classical Greek world it was used only occasionally as a complement to a type of textile armour (linothorax). But at the end of the third century neither the Carthaginians nor Romans appear to have used this type of protection; the legionaries in particular, as Polybius says (VI, 23, 14-15), wore a small bronze square on their chest at the most, and only the most affluent wore a coat of iron chainmail. This second option —the coat of mail— has also been suggested for the warriors, but these coats of mail from the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE did not have pteryges and were furthermore an absolutely rarity in Iberia. Moreover, the decorative pattern used on the Vessel does not seem to be that for ring-woven mail, which is usually depicted in a different way in the visual arts.

    Finally, other authors have suggested armour made from bronze sheets, small rectangular plates sewn together, of which there is no iconographic or archaeological evidence in Iberia and which was not used – or barely used– in the central Mediterranean region in this period. Moreover, plate armour is normally depicted in a much simpler way using a pattern of small squares or rectangles. Only the penultimate infantryman has his entire torso covered by a pattern of crossed lines forming small diamonds (which only cover the abdomen and belly of the rest of the figures), but the diagonal lines would not be adequate to represent plate amour, whose lines are clearly vertical and horizontal,and are represented in this way on some small Etruscan offerings, for example.

    The most probable explanation is that the warriors are wearing a type of quilted protection, more likely made from textile than leather. In fact, the scale pattern was, for example, used on Greek ceramics to represent both metal scales and organic protective wear (the aegis or skin of AmaltheaÂ’s goat which protected Athena) and even the wings of deities such as Thanatos and Hypnos, such as on the famous vessel decorated by the painter Euphronios. In fact, Anderson explained many years ago that the scales in Greek black-figure paintings were normally used to indicate “hair on a hide... or even as a decorative motif on cloth”.

     

    • Sad 1
  18. 15 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Also, if anyone has any suggestions for a 4th Ptolemy hero

    Maybe Ptolemy III ''The Benefactor''?

    He nearly conquered the Seleucid empire during the Third Syrian War.

    He also strengthened his ties with the Egyptian priesthood, and built multiple temples (The Edfu temple started being built during his reign).

    • Thanks 1
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