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Ultimate Aurelian

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Posts posted by Ultimate Aurelian

  1. On 14/08/2021 at 12:34 AM, Dasaavawar said:

    1. Comments on the actual models:

    They look mostly great, congratulations to the artists (@Obskiuras and @MrLux). I would only like to say that the stone circle from the temple is using too much ground space (maybe it would be better to decorate it with those religious totems).  As for the civic center, I think it still looks small (specially when compared with the barracks). The entrance corridor also looks very long, almost like in the first model of the temple, maybe increasing the useful space of the CC might it make look slightly shorter). The covered entrance from the first model of the CC was nice too.

    2. References for textures and (possible) wonder:

    Here I share the references that I found.

    'Alamannen museum' (museum of the 'Alamanni'; from a quick look on wikipedia, they also were included in the Suebian peoples, tho, it would be interesting if Merovingians are also going to be included in the Carolingians (or more like the Frankish Empire) as for recreating the iconic battle of Tolbiac).

    I think this can be useful at least for developing realistic textures (and differentiating their architecture from the Gaulish one):

    http://www.alamannen-museum.de/das-freigelaende.html

    Particularly, if this could be possibly used as for the coloration / textures:

    Panorama-Wohnstallhaus.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Panorama-Wohnstallhaus.jpg

    more references on the 'Langhaus' (Long house(s)) and others related with the 'Steinzeit'  (Stone time (age)):

    https://www.museum-quintana.de/content/?attachment_id=284

    http://www.archaeopro.de/archaeopro/Strukturen/Langhaus1/Langhaus1-Rek.htm

    https://www.ndr.de/ratgeber/reise/binnenland_elbe/Willkommen-in-der-Steinzeit,steinzeitpark125.html

    https://www.steinzeitdorf-randau.de/

    I was also thinking of using one of those Long houses from the artistic depictions shared by @nifa as their wonder, along with giving them those small storehouses (with a number limit and only after having built a big storehouse, I had this same idea for other 'barbarian' factions too; Iberians, Gauls, Britons and Lusitanians). And introducing another special building for the Suebians (I'm going to share information about it later).

    One issue i see with using the longhouse as wonder is that it might overlap with the CC and Great Hall buiilding.

    I think the wonder could be a burial mound, although would be a bit of artistic license

    From what i can find there are bronze/early iron age burial mounds in Germany but not built by Germanics (Tumulus, Urfnield, Hallstat cultures); there are also Germanic mounds but in Scandinavia and the majority is from the bronze age or the dark ages.

    Other possible option could be the pillars of the Frisii (Early form of Irminsul?), although we don't really know how they looked like.

    Quote

    Towards the river are the Frisii, distinguished as the Greater and Lesser Frisii, according to their strength. Both these tribes, as far as the ocean, are skirted by the Rhine, and their territory also embraces vast lakes which Roman fleets have navigated. We have even ventured on the ocean itself in these parts. Pillars of Hercules, so rumour commonly says, still exist; whether Hercules really visited the country, or whether we have agreed to ascribe every work of grandeur, wherever met with, to his renown. . Drusus Germanicus indeed did not lack daring; but the ocean barred the explorer's access to itself and to Hercules. Subsequently no one has made the attempt, and it has been thought more pious and reverential to believe in the actions of the gods than to inquire.

     

    • Like 1
  2. On 30/08/2021 at 5:52 PM, Ardworix said:

    Especially, I think it would be interesting to add Sertorius as the third hero of the lusitanian faction. In spite of being of Roman origin. Sertório was certainly, after Viriato, the greatest "general" who led the lusitanian in a war as intense or more intense than the one waged by Viriato. There was a moment when the Romans mobilized 130 thousand men against the Portuguese of Sertorius.

    Since he was Roman perhaps it might be better to use one of the Lusitanian chiefs who sided with Sertorius as hero; that is assuming any of their names have been recorded.

    • Like 1
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  3. 1 hour ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

    I though about this and found the following image:

    Khanoum05.jpg

     

    The website only describes this a Persian temple with a statue of Zeus inside it, and places it in the palace complex or near it. But I cant vouch for its veracity.

    Looks more like the temple of jerusalem to me.

    That's the first that shows up on reverse image search.

  4. On 27/07/2021 at 9:24 PM, Sundiata said:

    Since the city was founded around 280 BC, well after Alexander had come and gone it's definitely not repurposed. Ai Khanoum was full of this stuff. The palace for example followed a very Persian outline, but it featured colonnades capped with Corinthian capitals, and the entablature followed the Doric order, with triglyphs. The other structures included a vaulted, peripteral mausoleum and other more Persian looking stuff. One purely Greek structure I'm aware of was the theatre, carved into a rock face. 

    "Ai-Khanoum (Aï Khānum, also Ay Khanum, lit. “Lady Moon” in Uzbek), possibly the historical Alexandria on the Oxus (Greek: Ἀλεξάνδρεια ἡ ἐπὶ τοῦ Ώξου), possibly later named Eucratidia, Εὐκρατίδεια) was one of the primary cities of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdomfrom circa 280 BCE, and of the Indo-Greek kings when they ruled both in Bactria and northwestern India, from the time of Demetrius I (200-190 BCE) to the time of Eucratides (170–145 BCE). Previous scholars have argued that Ai Khanoum was founded in the late 4th century BC, following the conquests of Alexander the Great. Recent analysis now strongly suggests that the city was founded c. 280 BC by the Seleucid emperor Antiochus I Soter. The city is located in Takhar Province, northern Afghanistan, at the confluence of the Panj River and the Kokcha River, both tributaries of the Amu Darya, historically known as the Oxus. It is on the lower of two major sets of routes (lowland and highland) which connect Western Asia to the Khyber Pass which gives road access to South Asia.

    Ai-Khanoum was one of the focal points of Hellenism in the East for nearly two centuries until its annihilation by nomadic invaders around 145 BCE about the time of the death of Eucratides I."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai-Khanoum

     

    Some visual references for Ai Khanoum:

    764px-Plan_AI_Khanoum-fr.svg.png

    4.ai_khanoum.jpg

    Ai Khanoum Greco Bactrian Kingdom.jpg

     

    Temple with Indented Niches in the foreground:

    Ai Khanoum Greco Bactrian Kingdom overview temple.jpg

    Ai Khanoum Greco Bactrian Kingdom Al Khanum 3.jpg

    Ai Khanoum Greco Bactrian Kingdom Al Khanum 4.jpg

     

    Another reconstruction of the Temple with Indented Niches:

    Ai Khanoum Greco Bactrian Kingdom Temple indented niches Al Khanum 2.jpg

     

    And a reconstruction of the Temple with Indented Niches by Juan de Lara:

    juan-de-lara-ay2017-1500x1000-2.jpg

    https://juan-de-lara.artstation.com/projects/L0eEk

     

    The theatre:

    khanoum.jpg

    One of these buildings could be the wonder.

     

    Maybe a section of the palace or the mausoleum you mentioned.

    • Like 1
  5.  

    11 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

    Someone once told me the following on this project:

     

    This is not a democracy or a demagoguery.

    While it has a lot of votes, i don't think Ygdrasil is the best choice.

    Since it is something from Norse mythology; and does not have much to do with the game's setting.

    • Like 1
  6. 23 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    He'll definitely get a cavalry bonus or aura. Also, some kind of "alliance building" aura. He needs a technology too. 

     

    Any ideas for these, guys? 

    One the posts above has some ideas

    Quote

    Edit: Maroboduus could increase the experience gained by his troops as a reflection of the regular training he ordered. Ariovistus could give a territory extension bonus or a capture bonus as a reflection of his conquest in Gaul and his skills in politics. Ballomar could give a bonus in looting.

    Not sure how to portray it gameplay wise; but Arminius could have a tech relating to how he ambushed the Romans.

    Ariovistus could have something related to cavalry; due to the skilled Belgae and Germanic horsemen he employed.

    Maroboduus led his people to Bohemia and estabilished a kingdom there; so maybe he gets a bonus/tech about it (Something like faster building or cheaper CC?)

    Since heroes in others factions sometimes affect the roster; maybe heroes could unlock some of the mercenary units from UB to be trained as normal units in fortress.

    IE: Arminius unlocks Chatti Veterans and Cheruscian pikemen; Ariovistus unlocks Gallic allied warriors and Rhine cavalry (special horse-stabber unit? or celtified cavalry with mail armor).

    • Thanks 1
  7. 2 hours ago, Oxenstierna said:

    I read that the Libyans are said to have fought similarly to the Macedonian phalanx. The veterans fought with the armor of the Romans, which was very expensive for that time and which was taken from the vanquished after the battles of Cannae, on the Trebia and Trasimeno Sea. I doubt that they used Roman tactics for this reason.

     

    My understanding is they never used Sarrissa like Macedonians.

    And that Carthaginians fought as Hoplite phalanx early on; later becoming more like thureophoroi.

    About tactics, it seems the Testudo did not exist at the time in general (not even Romans used it yet).

    Video on the topic (subtitled):

     

    • Like 1
  8. 25 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

    interesting if these veterans could form a kind of testudo.

     

    The other thing would be to choose between these and the sacred band.

    Not sure if they should have Testudo, since i don't think the Romans at the time used that either; first mention of it seems to be in Mark Anthony's invasion of Parthia (and itt would work better with the later square scutum than the oval one of Punic wars).

    I was thinking the unit could be unlocked by choosing Hannibal as hero; in which case sacred band would probably be disabled (they did not exist by this time).

  9. Gameplay wise i think most heroes on DE start on foot and then upgrade to be mounted (unlike normal 0 A.D thing of some heroes being on foot and others mounted).

    But if there is a vanilla version of the faction then he should be a cavalry hero indeed.

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  10. 23 hours ago, Genava55 said:

    Although it would be really nice to distinguish both Celtic civ instead of considering them as a unique group with very identical bonus and gameplay.
     

     I am not sure if there should be shared bonus; Sparta and Athens don't share bonuses.

    Although both share Theatron building (Theatre was not really a thing in Sparta anyway so maybe change that in the future too).

    If there is a plunder bonus maybe could be unique to Gauls; since they were famous for sacking Rome and Delphi (Britons on the other hand mostly fought in each other, and later on had a defensive war against Rome).

    22 hours ago, Genava55 said:

    Sure. The Gauls could have the Lepontii with axemen, the Treveri with better cavalry or even the Salyes/Saluvii with a unique building from Entremont and Roquepertuse. The Britons with the Caledonii swordsmen, an Irish/Iverni warrior etc. etc. I can find multiple examples of this kind.

    By paired techs you mean that the player would have to chose between two tribes (two techs)?

    Not necessarily trainable as normal units; but maybe Britons could have some allied Gallic units (Belgae, Armoricans) trainable through DE mercenary camp feature.

    With more than three heroes now being possible Britons could have Diviciacus (Unlocking Belgian units?).

  11. 1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

    As a complementary info, we reached the same conclusion I think

    I used your comment as a guideline when i researched their equipment.

    I actually quoted it in the original thread.

    https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/27934-art-references-suebian-german-units-shields-weapons-clothing/?do=findComment&comment=395400

    And indeed i think using looted/traded equipment is the best way to have variety between heroes (since early Germanics rarely used armor, and the few finds are mostly from Roman or Celtic source).

     

    • Thanks 1
  12. 4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Heroes? Need at least 3, up to 5.

    Ariovistus

    • Leader of the Suebi and other allied Germanic peoples in the second quarter of the 1st century BC. He and his followers took part in a war in Gaul, assisting the Arverni and Sequani in defeating their rivals, the Aedui. They then settled in large numbers into conquered Gallic territory, in the Alsace region. They were defeated, however, in the Battle of Vosges and driven back over the Rhine in 58 BC by Julius Caesar.
    • https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ariovistus

     

    Maroboduus

    • King of the Marcomanni, who were Germanic Suebian people. He spent part of his youth in Rome, and returning, found his people under pressure from invasions by the Roman empire between the Rhine and Elbe. He led them into the forests of Bohemia, adjacent to the Quadi who already lived nearby, and established a large alliance.
    • https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Maroboduus

     

    Arminius

    • Was a Roman officer and later chieftain of the Germanic Cherusci tribe who is best known for commanding an alliance of Germanic tribes at the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest in 9 AD, in which three Roman legions under the command of general Publius Quinctilius Varus were destroyed. His victory at Teutoburg Forest would precipitate the Roman Empire's permanent strategic withdrawal from Magna Germania.
    • https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Arminius
    • Thinking putting him into the Sueabian mercenary camp, since he wasn't technically a Suebian.

     

    Who else? 

    This one was mentioned earlier in the thread, i think he would be a good choice.

    Ballomar

    • Leader of the Marcomanni. At first a Roman client ruler; during the first Marcomannic war he formed an alliance with other Germanic tribes and invaded Italy.
    • https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ballomar

    In another thread i posted references for how heroes could be equipped; linking here for convenience (Idea was that Ballomar had more Germanic equipment; while Ariovistus is more Celtified and the other two have looted Roman gear)

     

    On 03/05/2020 at 3:37 PM, Ultimate Aurelian said:

     

    Posting some possible references for Suebian Heroes (Based on your Gaul hero post).

    Ariovistus:

      Reveal hidden contents

    Port helmet (Horned?)

    image.png

    image.png

     

    SKMBT_C25007052307570.jpg

    Chainmail and hexagonal shield:

    ariovistus__a_suebian_war_leader__1st_bc2.jpgf39e53ad-9987-40c2-ac9b-76727182aaf

    003.jpg

     

    Celtic Long sword:

    image.png

     

     

    Maroboodus (Marobodwos ?):

      Reveal hidden contents

    Shield and Griffin helmet based on Portonaccio Sarcophagus:

    1-20.png

     

    79bab674c9749accb80dd59239e0f9bf.jpg

    Spatha

    Kemnitz Muscle Cuirass:

    marcchieftain.jpg?w=584

     

     

    Or scale armor:

    :germanos_04.jpg

     

     

     

    Ballomar (Reconstructed as celtic Ballomaros, possibly germanic Baldomarijaz ?)

      Reveal hidden contents

    Simple helmet with fur covering or horns:

    image.png

    image.png

    Rectangular shield (As above)

    Leather Armor:

    image.png

     

    bkc6IZB.thumb.jpg.ceb044959d4f99066e8875aef95375a4.jpg

     

    Vimose Mail Shirt:

    csm_Ringbrynje_fra_Vimose__C1078-00010_5

    image.png

    Fur cape:

    18195045_744935582351459_492750564501349

     

    Heavy thrusting spear:

    532p.jpg

     

    Arminius could be a fourth option (Mercenary hero?)

      Reveal hidden contents

    Masked helmet from Kalkriese:

    9603021153_246f1856af_h.jpg?w=512&h=736

    Similar helmet from Batavian burial modified with a straw wig

    bac4d0b3c02ef6437ed273f81809ca62.jpg

    e5394vj.jpg

    Lorica Hamata, armed with Roman sword or cavalry Spear :arminius_and_inguiomer_flee_idistaviso_b

    total-war-arena-arminius-game-8k-wallpap

    456309580d2276d182af6bb5d79bc325.jpg

     

    Roman Oval Equestrian or Auxilia shield:

    a00e6c2e2dab891688d35e9abddcd8a0.jpg

    cJIqXdU.jpg

     

     

     

    • Thanks 1
  13. 28 minutes ago, Lopess said:

    Adds more trees and animals (we have whales and fish) and gaia structures, if I were you I would also play a bit with the color of the sun and its position. Congratulations on the beautiful beginning.

    From what i can find the islands were not inhabited until after the game's timeline.

    So maybe better to not have structures.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Faroe_Islands#Early_Gaelic_and_Norse_settlements

    If possible would be good to have Huntable birds and Seals (Land mamals on the islands were introduced by humans)

    • Like 1
  14. Same applies to foot swordsmen in a way.

    Aside from the obvious example of Roman Legions; Celtic warriors and Hellenistic Thorakites also carried javelins.

    In EB2 mod most swordsman units can throw spears before melee.

    Although there are a couple exceptions; like some of the Briton units and the Germanic bodyguard swordsmen.

    Interestingly the mod choose to give Britons sword cavalry.

    https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/wiki/Markakoi_(British_Heavy_Cavalry)

    • Like 1
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  15. 10 minutes ago, Lopess said:

    Is this perhaps the most suitable wonder for the Xiongnu?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noin-Ula_burial_site

    "one is an exceptionally rich burial of a historically known ruler of the Xiongnu, Wuzhuliu, who died in 13 CE"

    xiong_wonder.jpg.998ba459aa73ab04418964850b57df2b.jpg

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10814-011-9053-2/figures/3

    008-86_Q640.jpg

    I'd say it is a solid option.

    Tongwancheng could be another choice, more visually impressive but harder to render (would require some speculation).

    If not for wonder, maybe use white city for possible wall or fortress?

    Not sure exactly how but i think it would be interesting to portray some of the settled aspects of steppe peoples.

    Quoting a post from another thread with some ideas about that.

    Spoiler
    On 11/10/2018 at 4:31 PM, Genava55 said:

    https://www.docdroid.net/UAhXdak/xiongnu-combined.pdf

    It seems that the Xiongnu did have some agricultural fields in the south-east border of their Empire where foreigners could settle. It wasn't really their own population but they were a kind of vassals the Xiongnu used to have enough food the winter, to have metals, textiles and others craftsmanship.

    There is small walls even in pastoral fields and fortified small settlements probably to stock and protect food and goods.

    The Xiongnu seems to have the same superior bow than the Huns.

    Edit: to summary a bit what I see for the moment.

    - The Scythians have a varied roster possible. From the Greek authors, there is mention of mounted javelinists and horse archers with the famous hit-and-retreat and ambush tactics. From archaeology, there is swords and pickaxes, spears, various squale armours and shields. The pickaxe is probably an answer against armours and must be an advantageous. The Sarmatians and the Eastern Scythians developed further heavy lancer cavalry and cataphracts. Normally each Scythians warriors, even armoured ones, have both bows and lances. Something to think about if the switching weapons is implemented one day. Crimean Scythians seem to be often separated from their northern Neighbors, having sometime a different king than the others Scythians. I suggest then for balance and historical reason to put the Crimean in a reform to be chosen with the further Sarmatian's development as an alternative. Since the Sarmatians destroyed the Crimean Scythians, it is logical that the player must chose between two different pathways.

    - The Xiongnu is more obscur but several patterns seem to emerge and we can make reasonable assumptions. The Xiongnu built their empire on a multiethnic basis  with sedentarian populations in their border. They must have the possibility to built defensive fortifications and farms. Since the mod make the difference between civilian and militarian buildings, it should be possible to let sedentarian based units to build such civilian buildings. It would explain why sometimes the Xiongnu have a lot of infantry during the defense of their borders against the Han (although with a very mediocre efficiency). Contrary to others nomads cultures, the Xiongnu have inhabited on their territory for a very long time. The Xiongnu have superior "hunnic-like" bows, long double edged swords, spears and leather and iron squale armour. For their horses, it doesn't seem there is any cataphract, only padded linen and silk protection probably against the arrows can be guessed from archaeology. 

    - The Huns are clearly the more mobiles and have clearly the best horse-archers. Not only because of their superior bows but also thanks to battle tactics. In the archaeology, the Huns seem similar to the Xiongnu but with indications they start using mail armour in Europe. They must be the best raiders. The possibility to hire Germanics units should give them better shock units both in cavalry and in infantry. There is not mention of any cataphract or any armoured horseman. The Avars (closely relatives to them) did have good lance cavalry. Attila was very good in siege warfare during his campaign against both eastern and western Romans.

    Hierarchical classification, I suggest (to discuss):

    Horse-archers - Huns > Xiongnu > Scythians

    Close-combat cavalry - Scythians > Huns > Xiongnu

    Armoured cavalry - Scythians with nomad reform > Xiongnu > Scythians with Crimean reform > Huns

    Lancers cavalry - Scythians with nomad reform > Huns > Xiongnu > Scythians with Crimean reform

    Combat infantry - Huns > Scythians with Crimean reform > Xiongnu >  Scythians with nomad reform

    Archers infantry - Huns > Xiongnu > Scythians

    Economy (self-production) - Xiongnu > Scythians > Huns

    Economy (Raiding) - Huns > Xiongnu > Scythians

    Siege abilities - Huns > Xiongnu > Scythians

    Defensive structures - Xiongnu > Scythians with Crimean reform >> Scythians with nomad reform = Huns

     

    This is clearly a matter of interpretation. 

     

     

    • Like 1
  16. I am not sure two factions is needed.

    Maybe something like how choosing Cleomenes give Sparta Pikemen,

    Pyrrhus and Alexander II have standard hellenistic roster.

    and if you pick Alexander I you get a more classical roster.

    • Like 1
  17. Maybe alongside with mercenary camps, there could also be capturable minor civ settlements (like aoe3 natives).

    IE: On hypothetical Lybian map you'd have mercenary camp and Lybian settlements

    Mercenary camp would train Mediterannean mercs (Numidian cav, Balearics, Iberians, Gaul swordsman etc) for a metal cost.

    Lybian settlement would train Lybian units for a cost of wood and food, and maybe hold some Lybian related improvements.

     

     

  18. 21 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    I need ideas for Balkan mercenaries. Essentially mercs from the Balkan peninsula and area.

    I was thinking:

    Thracian Peltast

    • Javelin Infantry

    Illyrian Spearman

    • Spear Infantry

    Dacian Falxman

    • Sword Infantry

    Getae _____ ? 

    Bastarnae _____ ?

    Paeonian ____ ?

    Need a couple cavalry ideas.

    Getae could have Horse archer.

    Paeonian served as light cavalry in the Macedonian army so could be cav (some sources say used javelins, other that they had spears like prodromos); they were one of the most hellenized Thracian tribes so could also get a heavy peltast with Thureos.

    Additionally i think it would be good to have Celtic Scordisci swordsmen.

    You could also have Yazyges heavy cavalry (either bow or lance) depending on timeline you want 

    Bastarnae could be a cavalry unit too.

     

    • Like 1
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