Ultimate Aurelian
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Posts posted by Ultimate Aurelian
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1 hour ago, Genava55 said:
Ah yes a typo, sorry.
About the Eastern Montefortino, it is mostly in use in the Eastern regions but actually there is one found in Southern France at Tintignac, so I wouldn't be to strict on this.
However I think the common Celtic Montefortino found in Italy would be more widespread in Carthaginian mercs. This is the type found among Northern Iberians as well.
I agree, like with your champions; i wanted to give the mercenaries a regional flavor from the areas the Carthaginians had the most influence(Rather than have just generic celts).
Also suggesting Cart Iberian mercenaries (Pectorale mostly disappear in Iberia around the time of the Punic Wars, except for ambiguous Roman descriptions of Celtiberian horsemen with shining armor):
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Iberian Skirmisher (Based on less celtified peoples; Illegertes ? Turdetani ? ):
- Basic => No helmet / Trousers / Tunic / no cape / Wicker shield
- Advanced => Cloth or leather helmet / Trousers /Cape / tunic /Caetra
- Elite =>Simple Iberian bronze helmet / Trousers / Cape or no cape / Local iberian soft armor or linothorax/ Caetra
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Celtiberian Horseman:
- Basic => No helmet / Trousers / Tunic / no cape / Caetra
- Advanced => Leather helmet or simple bronze helmet / Trousers / Cape or no cape /Padded or Leather armor/Caetra
- Elite =>Chalcidian or Montefortino/ Trousers / Cape or no cape / Leather, padded armor or Mail/ Caetra with bronze boss
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Iberian Skirmisher (Based on less celtified peoples; Illegertes ? Turdetani ? ):
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49 minutes ago, Genava55 said:
I didn't say anything about the Ciumesti helmet. The Ciumesti helmet, outside of its fancy bird, has the same typology than the Eastern variants illustrated in my previous message:
''The Boé, Port, Ciumesti and Coolus helmets are interesting but they are in use after the fall of Carthage (149 BC)'''.
I guess it was just a typo, would that kind of eastern Montefortino (I was using Ciumesti as short hand term.) be appropriate for Carthage mercs ?
Since you suggested it for Gauls in a older post.
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1 hour ago, Genava55 said:
The Galatians could be entirely naked in basic as well, since they are sometimes depicted like this in terracotta.
I would disagree with the Berru helmet since it is something found during the 5th century and the first half of the 4th century, while the Galatian migration started really in the beginning of the 3rd century. Probably that the most common Celtic helmets would have been the Eastern variant of the Celtic Montefortino series:
Finally it is also possible that Galatian elites used more Hellenistic equipment:
https://battleshields.tumblr.com/post/12433075574/galatian-shields-these-galatian-warriors-are
http://profesorjuliodapenalosada.blogspot.com/2015/12/le-soldat-lagide.html
The Boé, Port, Ciumesti and Coolus helmets are interesting but they are in use after the fall of Carthage (149 BC).
I think that it is possible to simply use different Celtic montefortino helmets, from simpler version to more decorated ones.
The Ciumesti helmet dates from 4th century B.C i think; but i guess you mean that the typology did not become widespread until later.
Is the Coolus Manheim (Bronze cap without cheekguards) accurate for the punic wars timeframe ?
I think it was added to ingame Romans.
Thanks for the help, will edit it.
Using this picture as guideline, may be a bit too old.
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Ionian shield with flying boar (Possible for Persian mercenary hoplite):
Athenian marines with anchor shield:
Possible flower Hoplon for Spartans (Too archaic?)
EB Carthaginian general shields:
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A idea for the ingame Celtic mercenaries:
Ptolemies:
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Galatian Swordsman:
- Basic => No helmet / Trousers / Naked or shirtless/ no cape / Long oval shield without
- Advanced => Eastern Montefortino / Trousers / Cape /Naked chest or tunic / Long oval shield with boss
- Elite =>Bryastovets, eastern Montefortino or Thracian / Trousers / Cape or no cape / Linothorax or Mail/ Long oval shield with shield boss and orle protection
Carthaginians:
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Gaulish Swordsman (Based on Narbonnian coast Gauls who traded with Greeks and Phoenicians):
- Basic => No helmet / Trousers / Naked chest or tunic / no cape / Long shield without boss
- Advanced => Montefortino / Trousers / Cape / Naked chest or tunic / Long shield with boss
- Elite =>Decorated Montefortino / Trousers / Cape or no cape / Leather Cuirass or Mail/ Long shield with shield boss and orle protection
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Celtic Horseman (Cisalpine):
- Basic => No helmet / Trousers / Naked chest or tunic / no cape / Long shield without boss
- Advanced => Montefortino, negau / Trousers / Cape /tunic/ Long shield with boss
- Elite =>Crested Montefortino/ Trousers / Cape or no cape / Leather Cuirass or Mail/ Long shield with shield boss and orle protection
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Galatian Swordsman:
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On 4/20/2019 at 6:15 PM, Sundiata said:
@Lion.Kanzen I made a rudimentary map of Africa, roughly from the 3rd century BC to 1st century BC-ish. It's a bit rough on the edges, forgive me
but it will give you a better understanding than those random general maps that just omit everything.
The spaces in between are probably occupied by low density hunter gatherers and even "troglodytes" (cave dwellers). There are probably other cultures that deserve mention on this map as well, but I'm not familiar enough with them.
For the new southern Africa map, it might be interesting to feature Rhapta as a neutral city (Using Kushite architecture as a placeholder) you can trade with and potentially capture.
Also was Madagascar inhabited by that time ?
Some sources say it was settled in 200 b.c but i am not sure if it that information is accurate
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2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Preliminary ideas:
Stats should exhibit extremes. For example, all Spartan units are trained at the elite or champion level, but are super expensive; all Persian units (except the Immortals Ninjas and heroes), only exist at Basic rank and are super cheap. The Athenians are in between these extremes.
Persians villagers should be all slaves, since they are evil.
Xerxes does not fight much, maybe he has low attack but a lot of health and serves as support for the ninjas ?
Might be interesting to feature the war rhino (I think there is a Rhino in game, not sure if it has an attack).
Athenians could have the weakest champion unit (They don't have the same awesome training as Spartans nor the dark magic of the persians).
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Quote
Skilurus (Skilurus)
- Hero Chariot
- King of the Crimean Scythians, whose capital was the Greco-Scythian city of Scythian Neapolis. Warred against Mithridates of Pontus.
- Defensive abilities: unlocks Stone Walls as long as he lives
@wowgetoffyourcellphone Been thinking of how should his chariot look like; maybe modified Seleucid chariot ?
A possible inspiration could be archaic Greek chariots (Second one is Etruscan).
Racing Chariots:
Only images of regional chariots i could find date to the Bronze age:
A four wheeled wagon was found in a bronze age Kurgan:
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4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
Esta interesante ese escudo. El diseño.
https://www.theoi.com/Ther/HusKlazomenaios.html
QuoteAelian, On Animals 12. 38 (trans. Scholfield) (Greek natural history C2nd A.D.) :
"I have heard that on Klazomenai (Clazomenae) [an island west of Smyrna] there was a sow with wings, and it ravaged the territory of Klazomenai. And Artemon records this in his Annals of Klazomenai. That is why there is a spot named and celebrated as ‘The Place of the Winged Sow,’ and it is famous. But if anyone regards this as myth, let him do so."
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7 hours ago, Genava55 said:Quote
As well as the sites mentioned above, other La Tène metalwork finds in north Wales include the hanging bowl/helmet of Cerrigydrudian
QuoteComprised of at least four fragments reconstructed as a flange. Bears engraved decoration comprising a scroll-like pattern of paired acanthus leaves linked to paired lotus leaves interspersed with palmettes within a cross-hatched background. One rivet is located on the inner edge of the flange.
Originally thought to be a hanging bowl these fragments are now interpreted as a ceremonial crown or helmet.
Could be a champion helmet, i think it would fit the chariot unit (Would look out of place on the armored champion swordsman).
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12 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:
Given Nescio's argument, it seems valid to potentially scrap the unit due to the ambiguities surrounding its use. If we want the Persians to be represented fielding hoplites, there were ample examples of that in simply recruiting Greek mercenaries. The most famous one that comes to mind is the employment of Memnon of Rhodes and his men during Alexander's campaign.
Maybe some Anatolian Greeks ? I feel they are a bit overlooked.
@wowgetoffyourcellphone For DE (Who has both Greek and Kardakes hoplites), you could keep the Greek hoplite and replace the Kardakes with a Ionian/Phoenician marine mercenary (pictures bellow are a bit speculative):
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There is also some bronze age discs who were worn on clothing.
5 hours ago, Genava55 said:The whole history of the Cimbri migration is a complex topic.
Indeed, looking at how early germanics migrated from the north; you'd assume the northern region would be the one with the least celtic influence.
Tacitus described Suebian women wearing purple; possibly allegorical ?
Possibly a more reddish shade (Like in the current civ emblem); my understanding is that there were purple dyes other than Tyrian but they lasted less and their shade was not as popular.
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2 hours ago, Genava55 said:
"θώραξι δὲ κεκοσμημένοι σιδηροῖς", thoraxi is any kind of body armor. In this case I would think of a Celtic chain mail with decorated stuff.
Anyway everything looks Celtic in their description, especially the two types of spear, a very Celtic like feature. Maybe there is the same within the Przeworsk culture, I dont know. Need to check.
This is centuries after that description but there are some phalerae from Thorsberg, don't look like Roman ones.
Possible face paint in ancient Scandinavians (From EB) ?
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On 5/4/2020 at 12:57 PM, Genava55 said:
The Aestii yes clearly. The Lugii not necessarily, this is the Przeworsk culture, the same as the later Vandals. The only trouble would be to find heroes, the only known names are from the Vandals.
I'd say Lugii and Suebians would be more similar to each other than Britons and Gauls (Same buildings, similar roster except for night warrior and celtic swordsman champion).
Also here is my draft for Suebi regional units (I choose to portray Batavians as mailed spear cav):
SpoilerNORTHERN UNITS
Generic Name: Suiones Archer
Specific Name:Sweoniz Skeutan
Class: Archer
Ranged Armament:Bow
Appearance:
Garb:
Basic: Shirtless may have cape
Helmet:
Basic: Bareheaded.
Shield:
Basic: none
History:
Garrison: 1.
Function: -
Special: -
Generic Name: Cimbrian Retainer
Specific Name:Kimbraz Herthaganautaz
Class: Champion Infantry Unit.
Hacker Armament: Sword
Garb: Cape, padded armor or mail (Phalerae?)
Helmet: Simple germanic helmet, wooden helmet or celtic helmet (Coolus, Port) with crest
Shield: Large shield with metal boss may have metal rim, oval, hexagonal
History:
Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special:
RHINE UNITS
Generic Name: Chatti Veteran
Specific Name:Hatjahalitaz
Class: Spear Infantry
Hacker Armament: Spear, decorative sword
Garb: Expensive tunic with cape, may be padded
Helmet: Looted roman helmet, simple germanic helmet, or celtic helmet (coolus, and port)
Shield: Large shield with metal boss may have metal rim, hexagonal or rectangular
History:
Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special:
NORTH SEA UNITSGeneric Name: Cheruscian Pikeman
Specific Name: Heruzkaz Speutan
Class: Pikeman
Hacker Armament:Pike
Appearance:
Garb:
Basic: Tunic, may have capeHelmet:
Basic:
Shield:
Basic: Larged wooden shield, round or rectangular, may have metal boss or reinforced spinaHistory:
Garrison: 1.
Function: -
Special: -
Generic Name:Batavian lancer
Specific Name:Batawjas Ridanz
Class: Cavalry spearman
Hacker Armament:Spear
Garb:
Basic:Padded armor or chainmail, capeHelmet:
Basic: Looted roman, germanic, celtic (Port, coolus, foret)Shield:
Elite: Oval or hexagonal shield, metal boss may have metal rimHistory:
Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special:
POMERANIAN UNITS
Generic Name:Haari night warrior
Specific Name:Nahtsharjaz
Class: Speaman
Hacker Armament: Framea
Garb:
Basic: Shirtless, capeHelmet:
Basic: None
Shield:
Basic: Oval, or rectangular, painted black; may have reinforced spina or metal bossHistory:
Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special: May frighten enemy units
Generic Name:Lugian mercenary Swordsman
Specific Name:Lugiz Herunautaz/Aswinas/Toutaginos
Class: Swordsman
Hacker Armament: LaTene Sword
Garb:
Basic:Tunic and cape may be paddedHelmet:
Basic: Cap, simple germanic helmet, eastern style port helmet (Mihovo, simiechow)Shield:
Basic: Rectangular, Oval or hexagonal shield, reinforced spina or metal bossHistory:
Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special:
BALTIC UNITS
Generic Name:Rugian warrior
Specific Name:Korodrougo
Class: Swordsman
Hacker Armament: Short sword
Garb:
Basic: Shirtless with cape
Helmet:
Basic: Pointy capShield:
Basic: Simple wooden shield, round
History:Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special:
Generic Name:Aestii axewoman
Specific Name:
Class: Axe Infantry
Hacker Armament: Axe
Appearance:
Garb:
Basic: Dress
Helmet:
Basic:none
Shield:
Basic:Simple round or square shieldHistory:
Garrison: 1.
Function:
Special: Either the unit is all female and boost nearby units, or it is a more normal axe unit with both male and females
I did not include the Rhine horse-stabber (Marhajagonaz ?) since you already plan it for the celts; maybe Gauls get mounted horse-stabbers and Germans have a infantry one ?
BTW the Cimbri are described with shining iron breastplates (Maybe just the way the author described mail, some r2tw mods have then with Iberian esque plates but might be innacurate).
QuoteAs for the Cimbri, their foot-soldiers advanced slowly from their defences, with a depth equal to their front, for each side of their formation had an extent of thirty furlongs; and their horsemen, fifteen thousand strong, rode out in splendid style, with helmets made to resemble the maws of frightful wild beasts or the heads of strange animals, which, with their towering crests of feathers, made their wearers appear taller than they really were; they were also equipped with breastplates of iron, and carried gleaming white shields. For hurling, each man had two lances; and at close quarters they used large, heavy swords.
The ''beast helmets'' could be either Celtic helmets with animal crests, or maybe fur wrapped helmets like the Geldubba find.
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28 minutes ago, Genava55 said:
Clearly regional units should be an important asset. Itself, the Suebian tribe doesn't seem to have such an amazing and diversified roster but by including other neighboring tribes it becomes more solid and balanced.
Choosing regions is a good way portray the diversity of germanics, without having to implement multiple factions (Cimbrians or Rhine tribes might be doable in the future, but a Lugii or Aestii faction would be very difficult to find material on).
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On 4/20/2020 at 8:17 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
I was wondering if it would be possible to give some kind of effect (permanent or with time limit) upon the death of an object.
Might be a interesting scenario feature; maybe a Ireland map ?
With a few neutral hillforts, players can either capture them (Get territory and can use it as a defensive position) or destroy them for a big bonus (Glory bounty?).
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On 5/2/2020 at 1:28 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
I may still give them a "Covered Ram" upgrade in the Imperial Phase for balance.
Could also be like that for navies; unlock Nydam ship in empire phase, if only having the Hjortspring ship is too unbalanced.
If my idea for regional mercenaries is implemented, you could have so the North Sea region unlocks a naval mercenary (Roman Patrol boat stolen by Batavian rebels).
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3 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Right. Plus we can make "custom" civs for campaigns and scenarios. These are civs that are playable only on specified maps and don't show up in the drop list of selectable civs for random maps and skirmish maps.
Palmyrenes is definitely on my list for inclusion as a complete selectable civ though.
Monarchy Romans would work best as a ''custom civ'', being slightly modified Etruscans.
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1 hour ago, Genava55 said:
Celtic-like / Roman-like cavalry along the Rhine
Batavian regional mercenary unit, the heaviest cavalry avaliable to Germans (Cimbri have heaviest infantry).
Or maybe the mounted slinger you mentioned; which i guess is based on this account by Hadrian:
Quote‘It is difficult for the cavalry of a (mixed) cohort to put on a pleasing display anyway, and especially difficult not to displease after an exercise performed by an ala\ the latter fills a greater expanse of plain, has more riders to throw javelins, makes frequent wheels to the right and performs the Cantabrian ride in close formation, and, in keeping with their higher pay, has superior horses and finer equipment. However, you have overcome these disadvantages by doing everything you have done energetically, in spite of the hot temperature; Added to this, you have shot stones from slings and fought with javelins and everywhere mounted quickly. The special care taken by my legate Catullinus is very obvious...’
Although it says they mounted quickly, so it's possible they were mounted infantry who fired slings on foot.
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4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
What about third Century crisis?
That's a good question, i was wondering the other day how Aurelian could be featured as a hero (Possibly as Dominate hero, since he paved the way for it).
Third century crisis fits between Dominate and Principate.
A way to portray that time period without being too similar to the other two, is through a Palmyra civ.
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@Genava55 Another headdress; Coincidentally from Cork, like the horns i previously posted maybe a cultural quirk of that region ?
It had two horns (the second one broke off).
QuoteThe Petrie Crown is a fine example of Celtic Iron Age metalworking which displays the curvilinear repeated patterning typical of the La Tene style. It is made of Bronze pieces which are either soldered or riveted together. It consists of a band, two discs and one horn.
The base is a bronze band which was bent into a circular shape that fits onto the head. Tiny perforations running the length suggest that leather or some sort of textile was sewn to the band. A Running pattern of disc- like shapes has been cut out of the band and is decorated with a flowing La Tene Pattern.
Two large discs are soldered onto this band and decorated with La Tene Trumpet Curves, the centre of some of these curves end in a bird head design. The eye sockets of the birds head would once have contained enamel. The discs are not flat, but are concave in shape. The designs are lined or carved in – ie the background of each line is carved away and smoothed so the lines appear raised. In each disc there is a boss with a mount for a bead – in one boss the bead is missing and in the other a red enamel bead remains.
The conical horn was cut from sheet bronze, was formed by bending sheet bronze into a cone shape and joining the edges using rivets – the edges were riveted to a strip of copper laid the length of the join inside the cone . Originally there was a second horn that was broken and lost. The horn is also decorated with cut away La Tene Trumpet curves and there is a mount where a bead would have been placed. This bead has since fallen out and become lost.
https://arthistoryleavingcert.com/pre-christian-ireland-2/iron-age-la-tene-in-ireland/
http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/irish-crafts/petrie-crown.htm
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On 25/08/2019 at 4:49 AM, Genava55 said:
Arminius (*Herminaz?) could have Roman equipment from his past (Arminius is actually Cherusci but I think everybody wants him to be a playable hero, the other possibility is Maroboduus which is more accurate and more interesting). Ariovistus (*Harjafristaz? or a Celtic, Ariouistos?) could have Gallic equipment. Ballomar could wear a 100% Germanic outfit and carrying only Germanic weapons.
Edit: Maroboduus could increase the experience gained by his troops as a reflection of the regular training he ordered. Ariovistus could give a territory extension bonus or a capture bonus as a reflection of his conquest in Gaul and his skills in politics. Ballomar could give a bonus in looting.
Posting some possible references for Suebian Heroes (Based on your Gaul hero post).
Ariovistus:
SpoilerPort helmet (Horned?)
Chainmail and hexagonal shield:
Celtic Long sword:
Maroboodus (Marobodwos ?):
SpoilerShield and Griffin helmet based on Portonaccio Sarcophagus:
Spatha
Kemnitz Muscle Cuirass:
Or scale armor:
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Ballomar (Reconstructed as celtic Ballomaros, possibly germanic Baldomarijaz ?)
SpoilerSimple helmet with fur covering or horns:
Rectangular shield (As above)
Leather Armor:
Vimose Mail Shirt:
Fur cape:
Heavy thrusting spear:
Arminius could be a fourth option (Mercenary hero?)
SpoilerMasked helmet from Kalkriese:
Similar helmet from Batavian burial modified with a straw wig
Lorica Hamata, armed with Roman sword or cavalry Spear :
Roman Oval Equestrian or Auxilia shield:
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2 hours ago, Genava55 said:
Personally I see the Tanderagee Idol representing some sort of Late Roman, Anglo-Saxon or Viking helmet:
The presence of possible horns threw me off a bit; but i agree there is no evidence of nasal on ancient Celtic helmets.
QuoteThat's very interesting. Thank you very much. It could be a kind of crown or ceremonial hat indeed. Why not using it.
Giving the unit a chance of spawning with no headgear would be appropriate in my opinion, this way you can have it in game but still portray it's rarity a bit.
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Wonder: Colossus of Rhodes
in Art Development
Posted
Is not the Kushite clubman uncensored ?