Jump to content

Prodigal Son

Community Members
  • Posts

    518
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    16

Posts posted by Prodigal Son

  1. Reading various topics and comments after quite a long absence I got the impression that the gameplay, or at least people discussing it, still has/have little clue on
    where it's heading, while not strangely, as preferences vary, people often have radically different visions on where it should head. Please correct and update me where I'm
    wrong, since I'm sure I can't/didn't catch up with everything. 

    What I'll (more or less) repeat is that you can't have everything fit in the same gameplay type and that no idea is universally great without context. At some point, preferably sooner rather than
    later, it would be nice to make bold choices on which should be the core features and then build the rest of the game around them. 
     
    I'll go on with a few such possible choices. They are not meant to be taken at face value and kickstart the glorious "I want this in/I want this out" thing. I've also
    been very guilty of it in the past and will probably be again in the future, but this thread is started with the intent to have myself informed on the current state of
    gameplay development and see if I can contribute with my general point or in more specific ways.  
     
    A major choice that would be better if addressed before continuing to debate on which features to throw in or out, is if we want a classic/oldschool RTS or
    something different, like increased focus on tactics and/or political/cultural simulation (in gameplay terms, not just visuals). In the first case we could have an
    awesome AOE clone, or something slightly more "modern" without phases and with structures as tech requirements or (insert whatever suitable). But loading it with much  more than what "successful" RTS do, say, total war-ish battles, on top of the classic formula and the number of current
    additions, is a bad idea that won't work , due to an overwhelming mix of economic and tactical micro. In the second case, we could enhance combat, largely or fully
    automate the economy, add special function techs/policies, customizable cities... e.t.c. and have our fully real time total war or 4x/grand strategy game. I'd love to
    have all styles in one, and each separately, and various intermediates, and something really great and innovative that I can't personally imagine. But it can't happen all in
    one. Let's give the core game a cohesive focus and leave the rest to mods. Which in turn would multiply and give enjoyment for various tastes, being made for a
    successful free game, nomatter it's "genre" (if we ever reach that state with the real world in a healthy shape, but that's another story:p). 
     
    Another thing to consider might be dumbing down the scale. Reducing unit speeds, line of sight, population cap - maybe even reducing map sizes, streamlining the
    forrests for better pathing. Better have less scale than (often major) lag "until fixed" which goes on for years and has repulsed who knows how many people. A
    classic RTS can work fine with 200 or even 100 pop. The game could be designed around that. If desire on having a grander scale is dominant or arises strong in the
    future while the code has improved, or if battalion combat ends up a core feature, so be it. Balance is really far from being acceptable anyway (in part due to the
    lack of a clear gameplay vision) and readjusting stats for the years to come should be taken for granted. For now or for good I can see this scaling down as a blessing
    to the game. 
     
    Finally I'd like to add a couple of things on visual cohesion (while expressing joy for the new art assets I just saw, especially the new ranges, stables etc).
    Structure numbers and unit numbers (along with variants) are getting increasingly high, with differences often hard to spot at a distance or by people not really
    familiar with every game imagery, both things bad for gameplay. It would be nice to have actors of the same class easily recognizable as what they are by shape, size etc. I
    won't go as far as suggesting redesigns, which would be a crazy amount of work, but starting with whatever is new from  now on would be something. But I will go as far as
    suggesting reduced actor/prop variants of a unit for example, when the shape or color uniformity breaks too much.

    I'll stop here to avoid missing the point, adding that if i sound harsh at bits I don't mean to degrade anyone, on the contrary the work done so far is great, it's only missing some extra focus.
     

    • Like 4
  2. To get a little more specific on my current thoughts about the mod, I am considering 3 gameplay variations and I need to settle on one if I am to resume work on the files at some point:

    1) Make this into a more or less Age Of Empires II clone set in the ancient era. It should be the easiest time and balance wise and I still love the oldschool gameplay.

    2) Grand strategy style. Should include the return of capturing, no workers (but auto-gathering from captured structures instead), historical maps/scenarios, strategic resources, a very basic structure tree but a detailed tech/policy tree and loads more. Could make use of many 0 A.D. features I don't consider really fitting in classic RTS gameplay, have more realism and possibly fun, but it would be a lot of work and very hard to balance for multiplayer.

    3) Continue from the point I left it at. Think AOE with a blizzard RTS twist, as of structure requirements instead of "ages/phases" and an intermediate state of faction rooster uniqueness. Or 0 A.D. with more clear (but not very hard) counters and without citizen soldiers, frantic unit speeds and capturing. Not sure how helpful it is, but you can see a generic tech tree I use as the base for civ design in this case.

     

    58d4f407edead_BaseTechtree.thumb.png.9defc17ec454ced53edbd788901bf469.png

    • Like 3
  3. History: The Britons were the Celtic tribes of the British Isles. Using chariots, longswordsmen and powerful melee soldiers, they staged fearesome revolts against Rome to protect their customs and interests. Also, they built thousands of unique structures such as hill forts, crannogs and brochs.

    Gameplay: The Britons are great at scouting and early food gathering, an advantage which can get used either to rush the opponent or get ahead in numbers or technological level. Their military is rather weak, with the exceptions of swordsmen and chariots, but all of their infantry units can become very easy to mass. Their navies and siege weapons lack variety, while their structures are some of the weakest in the late game. A notable exception to this are their forts which are very cost effective allowing them to guard several key locations and rapidly gather numbers of their Celtic Chariot, which is an excellent ranged support and hit and run unit.

    Civilization Bonuses:

    - Dog Scout, better scout but weaker in combat (briton dogs).

    - Villagers +50% meat gathering rate, requires a Farmstead (hunting/herding bonus).

    - Fortresses -20% cost (numerous hill forts in Britain).

    - Structures -20% build time and hit points (wooden construction).

    - Team Bonus: Cargo Ships +50% hit points (Atlantic trade).

    Unique Units:

    post-12675-0-23675700-1447443641.png

    - Celtic Chariot (Chariot Skirmisher).

    Unique Technologies:

    - Boudicca's Levy (Infantry -40% train time).

    - Swift Chariots (Celtic Chariots +10% speed, -10% attack rate).

    - Woad Raiders (Melee infantry +1 crush attack).

    Unique Structures:

    - Rotary Mill (Farming Aura: Villagers +20% farming rate.).

    Units:

    (Wip)

    Barracks Units:

    - Speaman (ranks I-II).

    - Skirmisher (ranks I-II).

    - Pikeman

    - Archer (ranks I-II).

    - Slinger (ranks I-II).

    - Swordsman (ranks I-III).

    Stables Units:

    - Cavalry Skirmisher (Ranks I-III).

    - Light Cavalry (Ranks I-III).

    - Heavy Cavalry

    - Camel Rider

    - Cavalry Archer

    - War Elephant

    Workshop Units:

    - Ram

    - Bolt Shooter

    - Stone Thrower

    - Chariot

    - Siege Tower

    Fortress Units:

    - Celtic Chariot

    - Gaesata

    Purple: Unique Unit, Blue: Replacement Unit, Black: Available Unit, Red: Forbidden Unit, Teal: Mercenary Unit.

  4. History: The Gauls were the Celtic tribes of continental Europe. Dominated by a priestly class of Druids, they featured a sophisticated culture of advanced metalworking, agriculture, trade and even road engineering. With heavy infantry and cavalry, Gallic warriors valiantly resisted Caesar's campaign of conquest and Rome's authoritarian rule.

    Gameplay: The Gauls focus on massing melee units which get much stronger as the game progresses. While they mostly use weak, cheap spearmen early on, their swordsmen are quite capable and their Unique Units can be unlocked for mass production at the Barracks and Stables. Their cavalry is generally strong and great for hit and run tactics, but their ranged units, siege weapons and navy relatively weak. Their structures are weak as well but are fast built and get a lot of utility through upgrades. They also get some of the best healers, with potentially great hit points and a good economy.

    Civilization Bonuses:

    - Melee Infantry +10% speed (furor celtica).

    - A Sheep added to starting units (farming/herding bonus).

    - Healers +10% hit points for each temple technology researched (druids).

    - Structures -20% build time and hit points (wooden construction).

    - Team Bonus: Unique Units, Mercenaries -10% train time (frequent service of Gauls as bodyguards and mercenaries).

    Unique Units:

    post-12675-0-48407600-1447442481.png

    - Solduros (Assault swordsman, x1.5 vs structures).

    post-12675-0-96035000-1447442488.png

    - Brihent (Heavy Cavalry).

    Unique Technologies:

    - Late Armies (Solduros can be trained at the barracks, Brihent at the Stables).

    - Great Migration (Structures -30% build time, no territory restrictions).

    - Gallic Wall (Walls and Fortresses +3 all armor levels).

    - Trimarchisia (Cavalry units +0.9 hit point regeneration per second).

    Unique Structures:

    - Rotary Mill (Farming Aura: Villagers +20% farming rate.).

    Units:

    (Wip)

    Barracks Units:

    - Speaman (ranks I-II).

    - Skirmisher (ranks I-II).

    - Pikeman

    - Archer (ranks I-II).

    - Slinger (ranks I-II).

    - Swordsman (ranks I-III).

    Stables Units:

    - Cavalry Skirmisher (Ranks I-III).

    - Light Cavalry (Ranks I-III).

    - Heavy Cavalry

    - Camel Rider

    - Cavalry Archer

    - War Elephant

    Workshop Units:

    - Ram

    - Bolt Shooter

    - Stone Thrower

    - Chariot

    - Siege Tower

    Fortress Units:

    - Solduros

    - Brihent

    - Gaesata

    Purple: Unique Unit, Blue: Replacement Unit, Black: Available Unit, Red: Forbidden Unit, Teal: Mercenary Unit.

  5. Looks like it's something else as well (I think it was around when the new pathfinder first got in):

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/mace_civil_centre:1: Expecting an element MarkerTemplate, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/mace_civil_centre:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/mace_civil_centre:1: Element RallyPointRenderer failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'structures/mace_civil_centre'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'structures/mace_civil_centre'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/mace_support_female_citizen:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/mace_support_female_citizen:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/mace_support_female_citizen:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/mace_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/mace_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/mace_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/mace_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/mace_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/mace_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/mace_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/mace_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/mace_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/mace_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_sheep:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_sheep:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_sheep:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/ptol_civil_centre:1: Expecting an element MarkerTemplate, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/ptol_civil_centre:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/ptol_civil_centre:1: Element RallyPointRenderer failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'structures/ptol_civil_centre'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'structures/ptol_civil_centre'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/ptol_support_female_citizen:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/ptol_support_female_citizen:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/ptol_support_female_citizen:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/ptol_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/ptol_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/ptol_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/ptol_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/ptol_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/ptol_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/ptol_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/ptol_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/ptol_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/ptol_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_muskox:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_muskox:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_muskox:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_muskox'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_muskox'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_muskox'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_walrus:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_walrus:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_walrus:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_walrus'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_walrus'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_walrus'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_bear:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_bear:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_bear:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    WARNING: PlayerID 2 | Petra error: it does not know how to interpret this map

    WARNING: JavaScript warning: simulation/ai/common-api/terrain-analysis.js line 289 reference to undefined property this.regionLinks[startRegion]

    ERROR: JavaScript error: simulation/ai/common-api/terrain-analysis.js line 289 TypeError: this.regionLinks[startRegion] is undefined m.Accessibility.prototype.getTrajectToIndex@simulation/ai/common-api/terrain-analysis.js:289:1 m.HQ.prototype.regionAnalysis@simulation/ai/petra/startingStrategy.js:194:9 m.HQ.prototype.gameAnalysis@simulation/ai/petra/startingStrategy.js:10:2 m.PetraBot.prototype.CustomInit@simulation/ai/petra/_petrabot.js:90:3 m.BaseAI.prototype.Init@simulation/ai/common-api/baseAI.js:62:2 InitGame@simulation/helpers/InitGame.js:72:2

    The map loads now, but is totally black/in fog (developer overlay use shows no player units and animals are created, the other resources are spawned though).

  6. I'm gonna stay almost inactive for the next while and since the new SVN changes have broken the mod again, could someone spot and post the issues so I can fix them?

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: special/player:1: Expecting an element , got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'special/player'

    ERROR: JavaScript error: uncaught exception: Player.js: Error creating player entity 1

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/rome_civil_centre:1: Expecting an element MarkerTemplate, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/rome_civil_centre:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/rome_civil_centre:1: Element RallyPointRenderer failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'structures/rome_civil_centre'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'structures/rome_civil_centre'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/rome_support_female_citizen:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/rome_support_female_citizen:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/rome_support_female_citizen:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/rome_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/rome_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/rome_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/rome_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/rome_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/rome_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/rome_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/rome_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/rome_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/rome_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_sheep:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_sheep:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_sheep:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/sele_civil_centre:1: Expecting an element MarkerTemplate, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/sele_civil_centre:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: structures/sele_civil_centre:1: Element RallyPointRenderer failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'structures/sele_civil_centre'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '2' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'structures/sele_civil_centre'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/sele_support_female_citizen:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/sele_support_female_citizen:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/sele_support_female_citizen:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/sele_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '2' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/sele_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '2' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/sele_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '2' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/sele_support_female_citizen'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '2' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/sele_support_female_citizen'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/sele_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/sele_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/sele_cavalry_javelinist_b:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/sele_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '2' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'units/sele_cavalry_javelinist_b'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_sheep'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_deer:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_deer:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_deer:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_deer'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_deer'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_deer'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_horse:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_horse:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_horse:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_horse'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_horse'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_horse'

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_bear:1: Expecting an element FormationController, got nothing

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_bear:1: Invalid sequence in interleave

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: gaia/fauna_bear:1: Element UnitMotion failed to validate content

    ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'

    ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    ERROR: Failed to load entity template 'gaia/fauna_bear'

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6

    WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6 InitGame@simulation/helpers/InitGame.js:48:7

    ERROR: JavaScript error: simulation/helpers/InitGame.js line 49 TypeError: cmpPlayer is null InitGame@simulation/helpers/InitGame.js:49:3

    WARNING: JavaScript warning: gui/session/session.js line 245 reference to undefined property g_Players[playerID]

    ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/session/session.js line 245 TypeError: g_Players[playerID] is undefined updateTopPanel@gui/session/session.js:245:7 init@gui/session/session.js:178:2 reallyStartGame@gui/loading/loading.js:104:2

    ERROR: GUI page 'page_session.xml': Failed to call init() function

    ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/session/session.js line 466 TypeError: playerState is undefined checkPlayerState@gui/session/session.js:466:1 onTick@gui/session/session.js:407:2 __eventhandler116 (tick)@sn tick:0:1
  7. Currently, we also lack any way for the user to select an attack. It would also be necessary for the charge attack. And boarding would be very hard in any case. We'd probably stick with ranged attack and ramming.

    How about these suggestions on navies:

    Village Phase:

    Fishing Boat - just fishing, no combat, no point in micro-ing a very small transported size for those.

    Merchant/Transport Ship - Can trade or ferry units, upgrades for more transport capacity on a following phase.

    Bireme Class Warship - Can ram like all warships and board or skirmish depending on crew (or maybe civ dependent crew and role). Can land her starting marines, which makes space for loading extra units. Same with loses. Small crew, say 10 units, landing them could work for an early game raid.

    Town Phase:

    Trireme Class Warship - Same with Bireme, but bigger, faster, with a larger crew. Alternatively, Biremes could be boarding ships and Triremes missile ships, or the opposite, but none of the two seems historically correct.

    City Phase:

    Quinquireme Class Warship - Possibly less agile than the other warships, with the additional option for artillery crew, or perhaps by default an artillery ship.

    Boarding could be done with having the ships lock together (maybe with some hook "missile" animation, like in RAF:CAW Lion mentioned earlier) and have the capture points determined by marine numbers/strength, losing capture points during the action could also reduce the crew.

    Since capturing is in, ship capturing would be a nice addition as well, as it was very common in naval battles and mostly done through boarding. Would it be that hard to implement the way stated above (no need for real visible boarding, just similar to building capturing, only with an extra attribute killing marines gradually as the "melee" goes on).

  8. Could also be I'm not explaining clear enough even after all those posts, lacking the technical knowledge on some fields as well.

    Forests currently can either be impassable or randomly passable through small, hard to spot gaps. Besides the pathfinder issues with units being stuck or slowing down, this has other effects as well. It's hard to be sure on what's the passability of each forest mass (without using the developer overlay). That's bad for gameplay. You need to be able to easily spot all pathways, not having to manually path-scout each tiny bit between trees to know if you need troops or walls to guard a place. It's kinda mean when the AI or a lucky/more observant player pass through those gaps and the opportunities for this are currently many and hard to monitor in most cases. Also gaps that allow some units through but not all of them aren't that great for gameplay either and very small gaps in general are bad for they can cause even small numbers of units to get stuck. It's not by accident or foolishness that games like the AOE and Warcraft series have no gaps in their similar forest masses.

    Ofc the "real forests are random" argument can be thrown in, but it doesn't help gameplay at all. Another rather major thing to consider is trees often being almost on top of each other, with both aesthetic and gameplay issues (more workers try to gather there than possible, and this might have to do with the worker limit per tree and not the pathfinder, I'm not sure about it though - happens with other resources as well in random maps).

    • Like 1
  9. Glad to hear the pathfinder is getting better and better lately:)

    My point is that there needs to be a clear forest attribute for gameplay reasons. Creating "light forests" with individual trees or an extra option would still be possible, but dense forests need to be by default impassable (or passable), and easy to place without random, hard to spot, exploitable and buggy gaps.

  10. I'm mostly for it as well, even though I wouldn't mind the other option that much.

    It can be called realistic: You can pass through a dense forest, but generally armies would avoid them for being a pain to cross (losing direction, carrying baggage etc) and to avoid being ambushed, as most armies were better fit to fight in open or relatively open ground. Units represent larger numbers in such games so for me it's not a bad compromise in realism. Gameplay-wise it's also better on most occasions since vision/control of your units in forests isn't the best even if using silhouettes. Their function as natural borders is interesting as well, having player bases open on all sides on most maps isn't that great for an RTS game. It also fits better in a macro oriented game (it's getting old I know:p).

    That said, representing some units' and civs' strengths in forests (or uneven ground) would also be interesting, like ambushing careless armies passing next to/in forests, or crossing them to launch an unexpected raid.This made me wonder if a higher ground bonus could be easily implemented for melee units as well (fighting up/downhill).

    Like on most fields of game design there's pros and cons on each decision, both on realism and functionality. Whatever the choice, the terrible issues with woodcutters/military units being struck between trees and the uncertainty on if a forest is passable or not need to go at some point, with no distance between trees or fully passable forests.

    • Like 1
  11. One major related thing to consider is the handling of forests. I see two viable options (there might be more):

    • Like in most RTS games, forests being impassable. This needs to come with a way to place trees in random maps and the scenario editor with no random spaces between them, aligned to each other, maybe with slightly increased obstruction size and distance, so that not the entirety of the upper parts go into each other. A forest paint tool in the editor would come handy as well.
    • Passable forests, coupled with some ambush mechanic for some civs and units. Either with obvious gaps between trees or no obstruction for them.

    A better looking (not perfectly round) version of single large forest entities like in Wow's Delenda Est might also be worth considering if it proves too hard to totally fix the pathfinder.

  12. Interesting ideas but I'd like to keep it simpler for now, since it's already needing a lot of work and I haven't messed with triggers at all. Might consider some of them later on. Might also want to keep the player slots up to 8 and look for ways for the AI to handle the map. It's a bit early to be sure on anything.

  13. I'm aware of this map, but since the gameplay will be very different with minor or no basebuilding, I prefer the expanded area over the increased detail. I'll have capturable structures representing off-map trade etc. The second link doesn't work though.

    Do you think I should work on Greece or the GOT map first?

  14. I've started working on what will function as campaigns for the mod, listed as scenario maps. Those will play differently from the mod and the main game, with basic features being:

    • Few structures with either auto generated income, appropriate units trained or both (cities, villages, forts, mines, harbors). All of them will be preset and capturable (still not sure if they should also be destructible and buildable).
    • Traders and Trade ships will be kept in, so that a part of the economy is still raidable.
    • Many unique regional structures representing important locations with a large variety of bonuses for holding them.
    • A basic tech-tree with less techs and no phase advancement, since the maps will focus on local conflicts in set periods.
    • Diplomacy will play a vital role since expansion isn't always easy.
    • Civs will have more or less appropriate strengths and weaknesses depending on their historical state in each scenario.
    • In the long run this could be the start for a turn-based campaign mode with many extract features.

    The first map is centered on Ancient Greece and might eventually host several starting dates/scenarios. Some of the possibilities are:

    • Greece 490 BC: Persian Wars. Focuses on Athens, Sparta, Persia, (Corinth, Thebes, Thessaly, Macedon, Halicarnassus).
    • Greece 431 BC: Peloponnesian War. Focuses on Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thebes, (Persia, Macedon, Thessaly).
    • Greece 359 BC: Rise Of Macedon. Focuses on Macedon, Athens, Thebes, (Sparta, Thrace, Thessaly, Persia).
    • Greece 281 BC: Galatian Invasion and Chremonidian Wars. Focuses on Epirus, Macedon, Athens, Sparta, Ptolemies, Gauls, Aetolian League, Corinth.
    • Greece 222 BC: Cleomenian and Macedonian Wars. Focuses on Macedon, Rome, Sparta, Achaean League, Aetolian League, Pergamum, Rhodes, Crete.
    • Greece 196 BC: Antiochus In Greece. Focuses on Seleucids, Rome, Macedon, Sparta, Achaean League, Aetolian League, Pergamum, Rhodes.

    post-12675-0-62796000-1433506046_thumb.p

    And now for something completely different:

    post-12675-0-90438400-1433506077_thumb.p

    • Like 2
  15. The balance between macro and micro can be handled in many different ways. I like the rather detailed economy the game has, so most of my suggestions take it for granted and propose/reject changes in other fields to reduce overall micro.

    On your macro specifics:

    - Agreed on tech depth, that's almost exactly what I'm doing in my mod.

    - As stated, I'm in favor of the general concept in resource gathering. A very basic eco doesn't necessarily favor macro, most games with such an eco are in fact designed that way to allow for intense troop micro, with some exceptions that rely on the (boring IMO) "spam huge numbers of troops" concept.

    - I'm mostly for soft counters, as they can represent realistic unit roles better in most cases. Slightly stronger than currently in the game though.

    - Agreed on the rest.

    • Like 1
×
×
  • Create New...