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On 5/20/2020 at 5:56 PM, Ultimate Aurelian said:

i like the cloth patterns, one suggestion is to make them only spawn with dark hair (The Kushite red dyed hair does not fit them).

That's true, the red hair is gone now. I replaced it with a turban from the Mauryans, but I don't know if it looks convincing. It looks more Indian than Sahelian.
Started to work on the healer. I tried to make him look like a marabout.

Edit: I changed the title of the thread to "civ: Malians", since there's more than just buildings now.

mali_healers_team_colors.png

Edited by m7600
Changed the title of the thread to "civ: Malians"
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Progress report on the units. They still need some more variations in the cloth pattern, I'm slowly working towards that goal. A few units are missing, like the champions, the heroes, and some mercenaries.

mali_units_team_red.png

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46 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Progress report on the units. They still need some more variations in the cloth pattern, I'm slowly working towards that goal. A few units are missing, like the champions, the heroes, and some mercenaries.

mali_units_team_red.png

Alongside with cloth patterns, other suggestions for rank distinction:

Basic:Reed shield

Advanced:Wooden shield covered in leather

Elite:Leather Helmet, some have  metal helmets; spear and bow units get a sheathed saber.

Champions would have metal helmets with some being armored (Chainmail or quilted armor).

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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@Ultimate Aurelian Definitely, reed and wooden-leather shields will be used instead of the ones that they have right now. I also agree about the helmets. Thanks again, as always.

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Back to buildings. Starting to incorporate the team colors. The civic center looks bad right now, there's still a lot of work to do. But most of that work will just be cleaning things up and tweaking stuff, like the ambient occlusion map, the normal map, the softening of the model's hard lines, etc.

mali_buildings_team_colors_01.png

mali_buildings_team_colors_02.png

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@balduin Thank you. I still need to make some of the props for the blacksmith. I'll try post an update later today, or tomorrow.

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26 minutes ago, m7600 said:

@balduin Thank you. I still need to make some of the props for the blacksmith. I'll try post an update later today, or tomorrow.

For an anvil, it would be better to use a rectangular piece of stone (Rather than the stereotypical  pointy metal anvil.).

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Update on the blacksmith. I haven't tried this version in game or in the Atlas editor, because I have to update the ambient occlusion map, and I still have to make a door for access to the roof.

mali_blacksmith_update.png

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23 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Update on the blacksmith. I haven't tried this version in game or in the Atlas editor, because I have to update the ambient occlusion map, and I still have to make a door for access to the roof.

mali_blacksmith_update.png

Not sure if barrels saw much use in Mali, better to use clay vessels like in civ center (Or maybe wicker).

If barrels are used they should be wooden (Metal hoops in barrels is a 19th century invention).

One nitpick is that the freestanding spear rack next to the anvil is a bit out of place and to go indoors you have to walk around it,  maybe lean it on one of the fences (The fence next to the door or the one next to the furnace.)

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Thanks for the feedback!

9 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

If barrels are used they should be wooden (Metal hoops in barrels is a 19th century invention).

: O

I didn't know this. Learn a new thing every day.

9 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

One nitpick is that the freestanding spear rack next to the anvil is a bit out of place and to go indoors you have to walk around it,  maybe lean it on one of the fences (The fence next to the door or the one next to the furnace.)

True, I didn't give much thought to pragmatic considerations, but you're right.

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1 hour ago, m7600 said:

Update on the blacksmith.

the building looks nice. Good work.

However, you could change the props a little. I think it would be difficult to work in that building as a blacksmith. There is not material like coal and fire wood. There is no iron or water to cool down the melted hot iron. It is far too crowded with weapons to move around. In addition, once you start the oven everything becomes full of ash, dust and dirt. It would be nice to have a darker oven/chimney which looks used, not perfect as it is.

Furthermore, you need tools as a blacksmith. You could replace some of the weapons with blacksmith tools. Like you did with the hammer.

Those two links illustrate my point about the tools, even though the Malians probably used different tools in the past, it should provide you with some inspiration on how many tools are in a blacksmith:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacksmith#/media/File:4_artist_blacksmith_forging_with_power_hammer.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacksmith#/media/File:Blacksmith_shop_at_Hoover_2002.JPG

Finally, could you make the ground plate at the bottom of the building square? Fill in the rectangular piece in front of the door?

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@m7600 Here's some inspiration for buildings specifically from Mali, from Goundam, Timbuktu, Djenne and Segou. They're from a range of time periods, but from the Islamic period onwards, traditional Sudano Sahelian architecture style of Mali remained somewhat similar. Some of these, like the Sankore madrassah were actually established before the Mali Empire, but were enlarged during the Mali Empire:

Goundam:

Quartier de Goundam.jpg

 

Timbuktu:

Barth_1858_Timbuktu_from_terrace.jpg

Fortier_372_Timbuktu_Djingereber_Mosque.jpg

Fortier_368_Timbuktu_Sankore_Mosque.jpg

91-+Wk2+XWL.jpg

78a53daeed184f43b8305e56f81db33a.jpg

 

Segou:

index-1.jpg

1024x573x23-2-palais-ahmadou-segouF.jpg.pagespeed.ic.cAzzAMeoow.jpg

index-22.jpg

 

Djenne:

Jenno Jeno Djenne Mali Ancient African city 1000 AD.jpg

Djenné-Le_Dispensaire_(AOF).jpg

Djenne_Fortier_407.jpg

Djenne_Fortier_414_cropped.jpg

index-4.jpg

index-8.jpg

index-9.jpg

index-11.jpg

index-13.jpg

index-15.jpg

traditional-adobe-house-in-sudanese-architecture-style-in-djenne-djenn-FXY4CE.jpg

image.jpeg

 

Not sure where this one is from:

IAA18036.jpg

 

These ones were from Niger, but there's some nice details:

tumblr_ng8fsnXzMt1sinqcho1_1280.jpg

tumblr_ng8frjnvqL1sinqcho1_500.jpgNiger Koa.jpg

tumblr_ng8fr00tep1sinqcho1_500.jpgtumblr_ng8fo06QEq1sinqcho1_1280.jpg

 

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@balduin Fair points, all of them. I agree with your observations. Thanks!

@Sundiata Those are some really beautiful references. Some of them I already had, but not most of them.

20 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

Not sure where this one is from:

Hmm... it seems to be Hausa style, but I could be wrong.

On a different note, what are your thoughts on making the defense tower look like a minaret? Would that be too much artistic license?

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Just now, m7600 said:

On a different note, what are your thoughts on making the defense tower look like a minaret? Would that be too much artistic license?

That's why I shared this one. I think either tower pictured here is a good inspiration. No need to make it look specifically like a minaret, although these ones here might be, they also look generic enough:

16 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

 

tumblr_ng8fsnXzMt1sinqcho1_1280.jpg

 

 

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I like those. I'll rework the defense tower.

I read an article the other day about using minarets as defensive structures. It only discussed a few specific cases, I'll see if I can find the link. But it was an academic piece and it seemed quite solid.

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Just now, m7600 said:

I read an article the other day about using minarets as defensive structures. It only discussed a few specific cases, I'll see if I can find the link. But it was an academic piece and it seemed quite solid.

I wouldn't be surprised, now that you mentioned it. Just today I learnt that the minarets of the mosques of Somalia not only doubled as lighthouses, but also served a defensive purpose:

The 2nd one might be Ottoman, I'm not sure...

jama.jpg

aamosque.jpg

 ancient Almnara tower in Somalia.jpg

EMF0j45WoAUBBjR.jpg

gettyimages-946132352-612x612.jpg

 

Check out the minaret on the main mosque of Ouadane, in Mauritania. Undoubtedly it served a secondary purpose as a lookout, announcing caravans and warning for raiders. But I'm no expert. The minaret of an older mosque at Ouadane is placed right next to the wall... The one below is placed more centrally, but you can definitely see for miles from up there. 

Ouadane mosque Mauritania.jpg

 

The minaret of the main mosque of Agadez is also substantially huge for a mud brick building. Same advantage of an unhindered view for miles and miles. But this mosque was built under the Songhai Empire:

Agadez grande mosque today imam roof.jpg

 

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Just now, Sundiata said:

aamosque.jpg

ancient Almnara tower in Somalia.jpg

On the secondary purpose, it's interesting how some of those towers are quite distant to the mosques (Rather than being part of the building like in European churches).

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Here's the article: "The Mamluk Minarets of Ramla", by Katia Cytryn-Silverman (2010). It has a subsection called "A dual function: religious and military?"

It's a controversial point among scholars, apparently. The author of the article seems to suggest that minarets did not have a military function. She says that the narrow openings on the sides of the structure are windows. Other authors, cited in the article, seem to believe that they were arrowslits.

Other minarets, not mentioned in the article, such as the one from the Great Mosque of Kairouan, seem to have had a defensive function. To me, the narrow openings on this one look like arrowslits, but I'm no expert:

450px-Tower_of_the_Great_Mosque_of_Kairo
 

 

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