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Zeldt

Translating Specific Names

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Can someone explain me pronounce of:
Miletucerdon - Miletu-(ts)-erdon or Miletu-(se)-rdon?

Harotz - Haro-t-z or Haro-(ts)?

Etxe - Et-(ks)-e or Et-ze?

Naukasthanaka - Naukas-(th)-anaka or Naukast-hanaka?

Shilabanda - (Sh)-ilabanda or S-h-ilabanda?

Xšaçapāvan - (Ks)-(sh)-a-(ts) or (ch)? pavan?

Cyfnewidiwr - K-ee-v-ne-oo-ee-d-ee-oo-r?

 

And what about A' B' etc? Is that Alpha, Beta etc? Philippus Beta of Macedon?

Edited by Zeldt

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Good questions! I assume you're asking because you're translating strings on transifex?

transifex.thumb.png.34d0bc39254012be8fa1fe032cbb56b1.png

If you're having trouble with something, it helps if you inform us about file it is, which you can find under Context (yellow) / More Info (cyan) / Occurrences (magenta).

For specific names, if you're translating to a language that uses the Latin alphabet, you can usually just click on Copy the source string (green) or press Ctrl+G. If you make a mistake, click on Revert the translation (red). Under Add special character (blue) you can find e.g. the ellipsis (…), itemization bullet (•), en-dash (–), or non-breaking space (NBSP). Alt+Enter will save your changes.

If you're translating to a language that uses a different script (e.g. Cyrillic), then you probably want to transcribe the specific names. You can find some information on the relevant wiki page (work in progress). Consistency matters. Are you familiar with IPA?

1 hour ago, Zeldt said:

Miletucerdon - Miletu-(ts)-erdon or Miletu-(se)-rdon?

Cyfnewidiwr - K-ee-v-ne-oo-ee-d-ee-oo-r?

I don't know how Briton and Gaulish specific names are pronounced. @Genava55?

1 hour ago, Zeldt said:

Harotz - Haro-t-z or Haro-(ts)?

Etxe - Et-(ks)-e or Et-ze?

Iberians use Basque: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language#Phonology

1 hour ago, Zeldt said:

Naukasthanaka - Naukas-(th)-anaka or Naukast-hanaka?

Shilabanda - (Sh)-ilabanda or S-h-ilabanda?

Mauryas use Sanskrit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit#Phonology

1 hour ago, Zeldt said:

Xšaçapāvan - (Ks)-(sh)-a-(ts) or (ch)? pavan?

Persians use Old Persian. The X was probably pronounced /kʰ/ (as Ancient Greek χ) or /x/ (as Modern Greek χ). The š is indeed /ʃ/ (as in English ship). The ç is uncertain; it may have been a palatal fricative /ç/ (as in German nicht, not German auch, which is velar /x/) or perhaps affricative /t͡ʃ/ (as in English church). The ā is a long a /aː/, which is the same sound as short a /a/, but twice as long.

1 hour ago, Zeldt said:

And what about A' B' etc? Is that Alpha, Beta etc? Philippus Beta of Macedon?

Yes and no: the apostrophe (actually a keraia) indicates the Greek letter should not be read as a letter but as a number; B' means 2; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals#Table

@Stan` or @feneur, could you split off @Zeldt's question and my answer into a separate translation thread?

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15 minutes ago, Nescio said:

@feneur, could you split off @Zeldt's question and my answer into a separate translation thread?

Sure, could you suggest a title for that thread? :) 

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11 minutes ago, feneur said:

Sure, could you suggest a title for that thread? :) 

“Translating specific names” or something like that?

11 minutes ago, AeternaTristitia said:

It's really fascinating to see all these efforts. Thanks for the good work.

Language is fascinating. :)

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2 hours ago, Nescio said:

I don't know how Briton and Gaulish specific names are pronounced.

Gaulish pronunciation is quite a complicated topic because it is hard to know where is the stress. Moreover, I am far from being a linguist. But this can help, the explanations are quite good:

In the case of Miletucerdon, one of my personal approximate craft, the stress should be in the -cer- part probably. It should be read MEE-LE-TOO-KER-DON.

Edited by Genava55
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Anyway, I must say, that including of "native" names was very bad idea, especially for right transliteration. Now I understand why Age of Empires strongly avoids them in game.

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2 hours ago, Zeldt said:
Mankar Cirya - from which language that words?

What is the file name?

2 hours ago, Zeldt said:

I found it. Persian ç = ss (Артахшасса)

It's actually a bit more subtle. Though the exact pronunciation is uncertain, it is known that Old Persian ç evolved from Proto-Iranian *θr and eventually became Middle Persian s. It must have been a distinct sound, otherwise the Persians wouldn't have developed separate cuneiform signs for it.

Nonetheless, for the purposes of the game, transliterating ç as “сс” /ss/ is fine, provided it's done consistently.

21 minutes ago, Zeldt said:

Anyway, I must say, that including of "native" names was very bad idea, especially for right transliteration. Now I understand why Age of Empires strongly avoids them in game.

You need people who know what they're doing. It's a lot of extra work for little benefit, so yes, uneconomical, thus understandable why commercial titles typically won't try.

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I'm replace Zeldt in translation.
 
On 2/11/2020 at 7:28 PM, Nescio said:

What is the file name?

 
simulation/templates/units/noldor_ship_bireme.xml:8
 
Elfish ship? I need to decide will it be /Mankar Siria/ or /Mankar [Ts]iria/, or /Mankar Kiria/, or /Mankar [Ts]i[r`a]/ etc. Is "Cirya" means syrian or it is own name if it elfish ship?
 
Spoiler

683786150_.thumb.png.cadf7c75bfb380137dbb5d0f3d0248d2.png

 

Edited by Lion-Tailed Macaque

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On 2/11/2020 at 6:28 PM, Nescio said:

You need people who know what they're doing. It's a lot of extra work for little benefit, so yes, uneconomical, thus understandable why commercial titles typically won't try.

Moreover, languages are borrowing differently the original names, sometimes adapting the word, sometimes not.

Some stay the same like curriculum and curricula.

Some stay basically the same like Samurai and Ninja. Although in Japanese they have the same form in plural than in singular, while in Western languages people have the tendency to made up a plural form.

Others not, like hoplite (sing.) and hoplites (plu.) in French instead of hoplitēs (sing.) and hoplitai (plu.) in Greek. Or like legionary and legionaries in English, from Latin legionarius and legionarii.

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7 hours ago, Lion-Tailed Macaque said:
I'm replace Zeldt in translation.
 
 
simulation/templates/units/noldor_ship_bireme.xml:8
 
Elfish ship? I need to decide will it be /Mankar Siria/ or /Mankar [Ts]iria/, or /Mankar Kiria/, or /Mankar [Ts]i[r`a]/ etc. Is "Cirya" means syrian or it is own name if it elfish ship?
 
  Reveal hidden contents

683786150_.thumb.png.cadf7c75bfb380137dbb5d0f3d0248d2.png

 

That's an Easter egg. Noldor → J. R. R. Tolkien → Quenya (which I had to look up).

As in Classical Latin, c means /k/ in all positions. Mankar Cirya would be pronounced /mankar kirja/.

7 hours ago, Lion-Tailed Macaque said:

Unfortunately, current "english" names use all kinds of phonemes together without keeping it at one style.

Безымянный.png

Yes, unfortunately there are many inconsistencies present in 0 A.D. Ideally all Mauryan specific names would be in the International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST), thus Aśvārahogaṇaḥ, not Aswarahoganah or something else. What is needed is someone with knowledge of Sanskrit to check and correct the current specific names.

Elsewhere (generic names etc.) things would be Anglicized; e.g. `maur_hero_ashoka.xml`:
    <GenericName>Ashoka the Great</GenericName>
    <SpecificName>Aśoka Devānāmpriya</SpecificName>

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