Jump to content

===[COMMITTED]=== Siege Artillery Rework


Alexandermb
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I'm freaking TELLING YOU THESE GIANT SIEGE ENGINES DO NOT FIT THE GAME WORLD.

Just played a match to prove you are wrong, it does fit. They aren't MOUNSTROUSLY BIG enough to make a difference between buildings and scales.

  1. Smaller than a Palm.
  2. Small than the roman wonder, wich is a good comparisson having in mind wonder isn't real scale. Why i would compare roman ballista scale with Gaul houses or fortress? Every architecture has its own design and size and obviously romans had taller buildings wich are already seen in your mod with Insulaes, Also can be seen at every other roman building such as aqueducts or colliseum.
  3. Isn't that big.
     
Spoiler

screenshot0019.pngscreenshot0017.pngscreenshot0022.pngscreenshot0023.pngscreenshot0025.pngscreenshot0015.pngscreenshot0013.png

@Stan` Any way to avoid this to happen in my configuration? (Low) I know i can avoid this enabling shadows but i don't have a graphic card to properly play at 30 FPS with or whitout shadows.

Spoiler

screenshot0024.png

This is probably the face of every player looking at lithobolos and ballista actually:

Spoiler

image.png

Before it shots looking that small size:

Spoiler

image.png

After it shots looking the damage:

Spoiler

image.png

What i have changed with that?

Well, if you see those huge ballista aiming at your town you should have this expression based on the damage it would do, and the pyschological effect it has:

Spoiler

AdvancedImpureFishingcat-size_restrictedimage.png

So if the enemy already reached that knowledge/late game artillery, and you still at phase 2 you will assume you are done.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alexandermb said:

 Isn't that big.

  Reveal hidden contents

Personally I don't mind having siege engines of different sizes, however, regardless of size, they all follow the same principles and ratios. The ones in those screenshots look way too tall and top-heavy, hence unstable. For stone-throwers the width ought to be 50% of the length and the height 30% of the length (i.e. a 10:5:3 l:w:h ratio).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

Personally I don't mind having siege engines of different sizes, however, regardless of size, they all follow the same principles and ratios. The ones in those screenshots look way too tall and top-heavy, hence unstable. For stone-throwers the width ought to be 50% of the length and the height 30% of the length (i.e. a 10:5:3 l:w:h ratio).

This reference show it has a rope holding the back zone though i have done it that way for use again the reload animation so i don't struggle making it specificly for roman ballista considering performance/space. 

I could make it a lil bit longer i belive.

 i was also thinking on place the rope, but didn't worth the polygons:

Spoiler

image.png

Or maybe i could reduce a the height, but the main point is to keep the levers in the same place and same rotation to avoid making 3 more animations of 400 frames lenght for a single ballista.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are ten technical drawings which might help:

Spoiler

i.thumb.png.e08f60b7a48ce70abd58d26b04a16927.png

ii.thumb.png.8ca0380b918927b719c691ac806c8eb2.png

iii.thumb.png.6463413e99b987ffe9e2948d3af86093.png

iv.thumb.png.bfca4c7830f931df5739927757a74453.png

v.thumb.png.b35946ab99a9bd8970b6bcf8004d39c1.png

vi.thumb.png.2063252e9d8f76286a611d002eb723f1.png

vii.thumb.png.3927d70d9adc7b056809b5be17769569.png

viii.thumb.png.0643afbd91bd6c7cb562cf10ca9e9036.png

ix.thumb.png.766a858030e944fa204c9d5411ed1d85.png

x.thumb.png.1601a21cdad0de79ef4a8868cd9ac741.png

 

They're from H. Köchly and W. Rüstow Griechische Kriegsschriftsteller (Leipzig 1853-1855), which is fully scanned:

https://archive.org/details/griechischekrieg01kc/page/n5
https://archive.org/details/p1griechischekri02kc/page/n6
https://archive.org/details/griechischekrieg00kcuoft/page/n6

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

Question: Polybolos ought to be used only by ptolemies or it should also be used by Macedonians and Seleucids? Oxybeles could be used by Athen and Spartans whitout Trouble.

Personally I'd recommend:

  • gastraphetes (handheld): only mace
  • scorpio (small): only rome
  • polybolos (repeating): only ptol
  • oxybeles (normal bolshooter): cart and most greeks
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Personally I'd recommend:

  • gastraphetes (handheld): only mace
  • scorpio (small): only rome
  • polybolos (repeating): only ptol
  • oxybeles (normal bolshooter): cart and most greeks

I don't see the problem with it. I like how every weapon is used maintaining the "light" artillery on its own way.

However i request some template changes on them.

Speed from 1 to 100 ratio.

Gastraphetes around 50-60%. 

Scorpio around 20-40%

Polybolos 100% with the actual attack speed. Though the range and accuracy should be lowered.

Oxybeles this is just like scorpio torsion and windlass, having to remove each  lever and introduce it again to reload so it requires a bit more time to reload and avoid looking strange. id say from 20-40%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nescio what would be your personal recommendations on the roman ballista?

This is the mesh whitout idle/attack_ranged animations:

Spoiler

image.pngimage.png

 

One possible solution:

Spoiler

image.pngimage.png

Reduced Height, Here you can see the difference:

Spoiler

image.png

Don't want to go too much lower because it will look similar to lithobolos and im trying to avoid that.

image.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

@Nescio what would be your personal recommendations on the roman ballista?

[...]

Don't want to go too much lower because it will look similar to lithobolos and im trying to avoid that.

But why? As stated earlier, they all followed the same principles and Carthaginian, Greek, Roman engines were fundamentally the same. Wouldn't it be better to just design one good stone-thrower and then scale it to different sizes (e.g. five, let's call them tiny, small, medium, large, huge)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Nescio said:

But why? As stated earlier, they all followed the same principles and Carthaginian, Greek, Roman engines were fundamentally the same. Wouldn't it be better to just design one good stone-thrower and then scale it to different sizes (e.g. five, let's call them tiny, small, medium, large, huge)?

Scaling it isn't that simple, each scale would require a different animation and animating a 400 frame lenght animation process on the infanty isn't that simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another useful drawing on torsion bolt-shooters (left) and stone-throwers (right):

Spoiler

841555875_Screenshotfrom2019-12-0515-01-07.thumb.png.82ab51e5ebaadad295803dcf12c80416.png

And some tables with dimensions of the different parts:

Spoiler

Conversion of ancient measures:

1875429367_Screenshotfrom2019-12-0517-28-02.thumb.png.2724ab3087e84dd3bd055d9f1264715b.png

Ratios for bolt-shooters:

1685948330_Screenshotfrom2019-12-0517-26-17.thumb.png.b16147e7a726b7e0d5b3abd164abede6.png

Ratios for stone-throwers:

916029283_Screenshotfrom2019-12-0517-26-40.thumb.png.798b8a2272df720ce2ddb1747fd2d3b9.png

Source: E. W. Marsden Greek and Roman Artillery: Historical Development (Oxford 1969).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Alexandermb changed the title to ===[COMMITTED]=== Siege Artillery Rework

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...