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===[COMMITTED]===Improve Artillery Tower Particles

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On 11/7/2019 at 1:25 AM, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

Great, that solution might actually work - if the shot is faster?

Made it a bit faster tweaked the impact particle. @LordGood Thoughts ?

artillery_tower2.gif

On 11/7/2019 at 1:25 AM, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

Is there any way to make the projectile launch from the actual window? Now it looks like the little shield "spits it out"

Not yet @Freagarach working on something like that.

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3 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Made it a bit faster tweaked the impact particle. @LordGood Thoughts ?

 

Not yet @Freagarach working on something like that.


I know you asked @LordGood but my opinion is: excellent. Maybe (just maybe) it would be worth trying what it looks like, if the "ghost tail" had a little less length between the "ghost projectiles"?

Instead of @Freagarach working on that, why not just make the windows a bit larger and position so they are where the projectile exits? Problem solved or?

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

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4 minutes ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

I know you asked @LordGood but my opinion is: excellent. Maybe (just maybe) it would be worth trying what it looks like, if the "ghost tail" had a little less length between the "ghost projectiles"?

Should be doable.

 

4 minutes ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

Instead of @Freagarach working on that, why not just make the windows a bit larger and position so they are where the projectile exits? Problem solved or?

The problem is all the example shoot straight, if you rotate the building it would shoot through the wall ^^ Bigger windows won't change that :)

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Just now, Stan` said:

Should be doable.

 

The problem is all the example shoot straight, if you rotate the building it would shoot through the wall ^^ Bigger windows won't change that :)

Well I guess it is not our most pressing issue, it looks awesome already.
Better not change the perfect architecture of that tower, it looks like something out of the real Archimedes defense of Syracuse. I would leave it more or less as is, and add the previously suggested tower types using same architect. model.

Just change the projectile animation and damage specs; certainly volleys of smaller stones, and volleys of arrows, and big ballista arrows.

(As said a mirror-tower would be historically correct and super awesome, but how to animate a "light-beam"? seems tricky.)

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5 minutes ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

Just change the projectile animation and damage specs; certainly volleys of smaller stones, and volleys of arrows, and big ballista arrows.

That can't do...  Unless you mean three different towers. Something that might be doable with turrets though and careful planning

7 minutes ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

(As said a mirror-tower would be historically correct and super awesome, but how to animate a "light-beam"? seems tricky.)

Then again turrets :D

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I mean three different towers, that look the same: If we are going to have artillery towers Archimedes-style, and say A, then we must also provide at least a few other projectile-type of towers, B, C, D.

Each tower should only shoot one species, just as in real life they would have been "built" for a single species only, too.

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

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But no reason why they cannot look the same, all hellenistic towers looked the same no matter what equipments the Greeks installed inside them.

Finally they should be made available to all factions in some form, because 0 A.D. obviously cannot be made historically realistic civ-wise since Archimedes-tech-level Greeks would just smash and annihilate all others.

And the premise of the game as I understand, is that this is achieved by a bit of 'what-if' the Mauryans and Kushites had developed mechanics in their own civ to build off/def siege equipment like the Romans and Greeks - right?

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I guess we could hack the Phenotype to switch sounds also but the attack effect would only be cosmetic cause we cannot change states on the fly (also would break balancing,) One thing that could be done is offer multiple options to player for the tower to upgrade to. That would be more of @borg-'s area.

Not all of civs have those towers I believe.

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3 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

But no reason why they cannot look the same, all hellenistic towers looked the same no matter what equipments the Greeks installed inside them.

Maybe I misunderstood, but there's a decent amount of variety in Hellenistic towers, including both square and round towers as part of the same fortifications (like the round towers of the gates of Perge vs the square towers on the rest of the wall). They both seem capable of housing artillery (bolt throwers at least):

Spoiler

Perge fortifications:

Turkey_Perge_01a.jpg.654289a016c412d75e63921f5392e584.jpg

1520740615_Hellenisticroundtower.thumb.jpg.2e7c65b9bef16abb8daac87d7f3465f9.jpg

TR72-8-08.jpg.484812a560689b53d712aa18c6457e75.jpg

5cebf54cd1462ab4c6bc1bd9515e84af.jpg.07b5f74decff6765e05ad48a6a0b711c.jpg

 

Artillery hypothesised in both round and square towers:

f2a5ac18cf5240c7b7b8a04e09608dd4_th.jpg.febfcc8deaa7471e542dd25339387f63.jpg

 

 

3 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

since Archimedes-tech-level Greeks would just smash and annihilate all others.

Sorry to sound contrarian, but Archimedes-tech-level Greeks were smashed by Romans, Parthians and Scythians. Of course we don't have Parthians and Scythians yet, but one day, one day, when we develop those civs we'll finally be able to check those pesky Greeks :P Either way, I think it's perfectly fine, even preferable, for the Greco-Roman civs to stand out in terms of artillery/siege and anti-siege. Those were some of their specialities and it makes those civs unique in that regard. Giving non-Greco-Roman civs Archimedes level tech would make those factions feel less than genuine. 

Just give everyone battering rams and be done with it. When and where there is evidence for more complicated siege equipment, then yes, let's do it, if not, then nah... 

 

3 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

And the premise of the game as I understand, is that this is achieved by a bit of 'what-if' the Mauryans and Kushites had developed mechanics in their own civ to build off/def siege equipment like the Romans and Greeks - right?

Not really, no. The argument for siege equipment among the Mauryans and Kushites is based on their written histories which mention them in both cases. The freestanding towers are just a standard RTS convention but as i indicated, I don't think this should be extended to artillery towers. Let them be unique.  

Edited by Sundiata
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6 hours ago, Stan` said:

Made it a bit faster tweaked the impact particle. @LordGood Thoughts ?

low projectile speed gives it the arc it needs to make it out the window at level ground lol

also a lower projectile speed helps particles stay together

I miss the poof at the end, blast of dust or plume of dirt where it lands would be wicked!

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Sundiata round and square, with square being overwhelmingly predominant - if that is a decent amount of variety then yes, but I'm not sure it is. But nothing speaks against a round tower if some-one can find time to model it.


With the Romans you are right but there is that little thing you forget to mention that the Romans just adopted said Greek tech, and got all of their other technology from the hellenistic engineers they imported: All the Roman siege engines are original hellenistic inventions, they improved a bit here and there but that does not make them "Roman tech", just as little as the antikythera mechanism becomes "Roman science" just because date estimates could place it after the conquest of Greece by the republic.

While Parthians and Scythians and other civs did defeat hellenistic states in the end, they really just overran corrupt kingdoms ripe for the taking. The best destroyers of hellenistic states were always other hellenistic states, sharply followed by their own military and political classes. You would also not say that the Roman empire fell because of superior barbarian tech, would you? It was obviously just overrun when it was ripe to fall, and the will or might to defend it was exhausted.

 

 


@LordGood blast of dust or plume of dirt would indeed be the final touch, but if you look at that animation @Stan` just posted you will notice that the speed is actually realistic? It looks cartoonish when the projectile is slower, imagine you were looking at a tower in the real world

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

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There’s a sweet spot, projectiles fall at 9.8m/s/s as a constant, projectile speed only dictates time it takes to travel that distance from the origin to the target. the arc is calculated with these variables in mind.  Low projectile velocity can actually make them travel at incredible speed in an extreme arc because of this

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any way we could get one the same color as the projectile, but with a very fast appearance and decay? the slow arrival and fade of the dust cloud seems to lessen the impact on its own, though I am definitely in favor of keeping it

Projectile color also has the added benefit of being biome friendly

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oh! small one with a fast decay but travels upwards? would really give that 'equal and opposite' motion I'd be looking for in an impact actor

mind me if you want I'm just spitballing here lol

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Explosion effect is an actor right? Might we haaaave say

2 poof actors?

is there particle acceleration too I forget it’s been forever 

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9 minutes ago, LordGood said:

is there particle acceleration too I forget it’s been forever 

I don't think, so at least I couldn't find that. You can control growth rate and the force applied on it, but I believe velocity does not have accelaration

11 minutes ago, LordGood said:

Explosion effect is an actor right? Might we haaaave say

I suppose you could. Since you can only have one particle actor but as many variants as you'd like. What'd you have in fine ?

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7 hours ago, LordGood said:

There’s a sweet spot, projectiles fall at 9.8m/s/s as a constant, projectile speed only dictates time it takes to travel that distance from the origin to the target. the arc is calculated with these variables in mind.  Low projectile velocity can actually make them travel at incredible speed in an extreme arc because of this

You can tweak that a bit with the "gravity" (I don't know if it's still here in current svn).

That's basically linked to the (max) height of the trajectory (parabola).

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8 hours ago, LordGood said:

There’s a sweet spot, projectiles fall at 9.8m/s/s as a constant, projectile speed only dictates time it takes to travel that distance from the origin to the target. the arc is calculated with these variables in mind.  Low projectile velocity can actually make them travel at incredible speed in an extreme arc because of this

These short range towers must shoot like on Stan's last GIF anyway?

 

artillery_tower2.gif

 

- it must be a compromise, otherwise we have to give _real ranges_ to these towers, and that would be foolish. Nothing would ever get anywhere near a group of those towers with realistic range of three stades. They are hurled on short range, not shot in arch as far as possible, they need to be effective against enemies and not win a shooting contest at 45 degrees.


And I have a question, since those animations are all in sync when one presses the "attack" button, is that all-in-sync-effect being fixed at any point soon? Because if not, it is bearable on the bare map itself, but the white smoke makes it really bad because it creates that "outline" of the figures. I think realism decreased on this new gif below, but I do not know whether speed just seems slower because of the crop? plz don't crop for estimate of ingame experience.
But it seems like the dust could disappear faster, but it also depends on rate of fire. The realism of the first impact effect is superior but because of crop I cannot really give a final feedback.

artillery_tower4.gif

 

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

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