Borg Expansion Pack Mod implementation in 0ad alpha 24 release.

[Sundiata 2,749]

53 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

thats sounds good for a immersive perspective however we would lack some good textures for differentiate some of them.

I'm sure @wackyserious could help in this department. It's just a thought though. Would be cool to have because it provides a good visual indicator for the role of those units.

 

1 minute ago, borg- said:

Naturally champion cavalry has more armor and life, so it makes it much stronger by itself.

Makes sense. So champion cav is still useful against citizen spears (especially lower ranked ones)?

 

I think spawning and/or capturing slaves is not a good mechanic. Seems too un-immersive and will result in super weird micro (separating newly spawned or captured slaves in the middle of a battle doesn't sound like fun). If we could eventually develop mini-civs we could have map-creeps as well as a conquerable location from where we could "acquire" or buy slaves. Slaves should be really cheap, but also super weak and should work very inefficiently.  

 

[borg- 533]

5 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

Makes sense. So champion cav is still useful against citizen spears (especially lower ranked ones)?

Yes, the cavalry will still lose, but will kill many spearmen.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone 5,273]

6 hours ago, Nescio said:

Looking at https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est/tree/master/simulation/templates it seems female citizens are capturable while males aren't and female slaves have different gather rates than their male counterparts.

Play the mod.

[borg- 533]

One question, historically make sense javelins cavalry have bonus vs ranged infantry?

Edited November 8 by borg-

[Angen 299]

no. Cavalry was used because was fast, with charging scared enemy that would flee and create gaps in ranks because lack of discipline, range cav could fast appear release projectiles and go fast to safety to out of range. so no really bonus specificly against basic ranged infantry

[badosu 53]

It seems Javelin cav was mostly used by Iberians, Numidians and Celtics to taunt or soften the front lines, I am not sure there's a mention of this particular interaction.

[wackyserious 1,791]

4 hours ago, Sundiata said:

I'm sure @wackyserious could help in this department. It's just a thought though. Would be cool to have because it provides a good visual indicator for the role of those units.

Which units do you need help with?

[Lion.Kanzen 4,148]

The logic of javelin units (skirmishers) are same as AoK (aoe2). 

Is more complex even aom.

https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Prodromos

The better is follow Justus schema. From DE.

[Sundiata 2,749]

55 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Which units do you need help with?

I was talking about a dedicated male/female villager/worker/laborer unit. But there's different opinions out there, so I don't really want you to waste time on it unless there's some agreement on the matter, especially because it has been a contentious question in the past.

Personally I think we can have citizen soldiers as they are, as well as a dedicated economic unit, the villager. They're not mutually exclusive. 

[Sundiata 2,749]

Interesting how a single stat can completely throw off the balance:

 

[borg- 533]

About slinger guys.

I read some time here in the forum that they had high efficiency against cavalry and also armored units, is that correct?

[Angen 299]

I think yes, because they throw roks which with speed delivered high blunt damage. Armoured nights were invurable against pierce damage of arrows and swords but they were vunerable to hammers and any blunt damage dealing weapons or projectiles like rocks.

[Lion.Kanzen 4,148]

7 minutes ago, borg- said:

About slinger guys.

I read some time here in the forum that they had high efficiency against cavalry and also armored units, is that correct?

But still have problem with that cavalry if they catch them.

[borg- 533]

So wouldn't it be stupid if slinger had a bonus against heavy cavalry / champions?

[Lion.Kanzen 4,148]

Just now, borg- said:

So wouldn't it be stupid if slinger had a bonus against heavy cavalry / champions?

Yes, they can have natural crush attack but cavalry must have litlle bonus to all missile units.

But for cavalry can be a little pain catch them if they are a lot. 5-7 of them can take down an heavy horseman. 

Slinger must be a defensive support unit for infantry like spearman.or for defending walls.

[borg- 533]

1 minute ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Yes, they can have natural crush attack but cavalry must have litlle bonus to all missile units.

But for cavalry can be a little pain catch them if they are a lot. 5-7 of them can take down an heavy horseman. 

Slinger must be a defensive support unit for infantry like spearman.or for defending walls.

At this point in the balance I have not yet felt the need to put a melee cavalry bonus on ranged units. The spear cavalry can do this by being a heavier unit. Slow but can withstand a lot of damage and manages to attack units at a distance. It might be very difficult if I have pike / spear units support, so maybe I need to give this little bonus.
Sword cavalry is fast and with high attack power, and make a great damage against ranged units (cavs too).

[borg- 533]

I can't add additional crush to slingers because that would make you very op against constructions, which is unrealistic.
At this time of balancing slingers are the cheapest unit of the game and also the most vulnerable, but in large numbers can cause good damage. Maybe I'll add a bonus against spear/sword cav and spear/sword infantry champions, for more useful late game play.

Edited November 9 by borg-

[Lion.Kanzen 4,148]

Spear calvary can deal with all range and little bonus vs siege. Sword cavalry a bonus vs siege  big bonus vs ranged.

Check how works in AoE DE. All sword cavalry line.

1 minute ago, borg- said:

I can't add additional crush to slingers because that would make you very op against constructions, which is unrealistic.
At this time of balancing slingers are the cheapest unit of the game and also the most vulnerable, but in large numbers can cause good damage. Maybe I'll add a bonus against champions, for more useful late game play.

Add defensive building bonus vs slingers.

[Lion.Kanzen 4,148]

Maybe with a few tests we can get out of doubt.
7 slingers vs 1 Seleucid cataphract.

Same vs Persian lancer

Same vs Macedonian lancer...

[borg- 533]

Current balance, 20 jave + 20 archer + 20 slinger vs 40 sword cavs.

Edited November 9 by borg-

[Lion.Kanzen 4,148]

10 minutes ago, borg- said:

Current balance, 20 jave + 20 archer + 20 slinger vs 40 sword cavs.

 

Look nice.

Edited November 9 by Lion.Kanzen

[Stan` 5,756]

@borg- Any use for the wolfhound (britons)

[borg- 533]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

@borg- Any use for the wolfhound (britons)

I've thought a lot about them especially for the mod, but never found anything that they could be useful for. Some ideas?

[Nescio 1,050]

2 hours ago, borg- said:

So wouldn't it be stupid if slinger had a bonus against heavy cavalry / champions?

Historically bonuses don't make sense at all. Sword, spear, arrow are all potentially deadly; javelins don't become less dangerous just because you happen to be armed with a spear.

4 minutes ago, borg- said:

I've thought a lot about them especially for the mod, but never found anything that they could be useful for. Some ideas?

Maybe a very cheap and quick to train trash unit (minimal armour, 0 population), useful for scouting or harrassing enemy traders and workers, but not for real fighting?

[borg- 533]

3 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Historically bonuses don't make sense at all. Sword, spear, arrow are all potentially deadly; javelins don't become less dangerous just because you happen to be armed with a spear.

Maybe a very cheap and quick to train trash unit (minimal armour, 0 population), useful for scouting or harrassing enemy traders and workers, but not for real fighting?

Is it possible that these dogs attack only workers and not soldiers? It would be a great idea.