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JC (naval supremacist)

why celts (gauls + brits) are over-played : list

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Pop growth :

- 5 pop house  / 75 wood  (less stairs effect in pop growing)

-  20% building time

- pop room gain by building some other structures than houses

- no metal based human units (metal takes longer to gather than wood)

- no stone buildings (except towers and castle)  (stone takes longer to gather than wood)  --> easy to spam barracks  (with their + pop room)

- rotative farm too boost food production (and thus, possible to lower the number of food workers )

 

When you know that pop growth is an exponential phenomena, those cumulated advantages gives to celts an insane advantage. 

 

and for units :

- Cav Hero for best dancing (Vecingetorix is the best hero  of the game)

- Sword cav for best siege destroying and quick raids

-  Slingers,  best basic unit since  .. very very long time.    With basic micro and some healers, slingers can get all <<<  and quickly the player dont need even need siege as those massed slingers can destroy absolutely everything or can easily retreat in formation with few dumping.

- Brits have a dog which can reduce ennemy pop in early game and already give a substainable advantage.

 

I hope that in next version of 0ad i will see team games with 1 or 2 gauls/brits  .. and not 6-7 as we often do now.

 

 

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I agree that they are overplayed and I think the main bonus is the non-house building pop bonus.  However, a skilled player using the Ptolemies can hold their own against them in 1v1.  Also, they lack ranged siege units which can be tough in some late-game situations.  Nevertheless, I suggest some or all of these nerfs:

  • Reduce non-house building population bonus to +1 instead of +2
  • Remove barracks +5 pop bonus, or conversely give all civs +5 pop bonus for each barracks built.

I've also wondered if slingers ought to be nerfed by not allowing them to benefit from ranged unit upgrades at the blacksmith.  Or if that's too harsh just make the last upgrade not apply to them.

 

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Not necessarily. Sling projectiles span the whole range from rocks of over 500 g via smooth pebbles to lead bullets of less than 5 g; catapult projectiles could be a factor 1000 heavier. The smaller a sling projectile is, the higher its accuracy, range, speed, and penetrative power; besides, they were easier to store, transport, and carry in combat, obviously. On the other hand, at close range a heavy rock could deliver a crushing blow (although you could also hurl rocks without a sling, of course).

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On 4/12/2019 at 10:55 AM, av93 said:

Structure cost should be unified between civs

That would be very bad, some civs need to be different to have certain advantages and disadvantages leaving diverse building costs makes some civs have advantage like especially the ptolemies who have no house cost because they need fast pop growth to make metal production cause you need metal unless you want an army of women and sprearmen/pikeman.

Edited by JamesWright
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2 hours ago, JamesWright said:

That would be very bad, some civs need to be different to have certain advantages and disadvantages leaving diverse building costs makes some civs have advantage like especially the ptolemies who have no house cost because they need fast pop growth to make metal production cause you need metal unless you want an army of women and sprearmen/pikeman.

Okey, I checked the buildings costs and seems that they were almost unified. If I remember well, towers, fortress and barracks had different cost of stone and wood between civs (@wowgetoffyourcellphone, I'm right?). I think that now only barracks (except Iberian towers, that are special) have random values in their prices:

- "Standard" price: 150 wood 150 stone, athens, carthaginians, spartans, kushites, macedonians, seleucids
- "Wood" price: 300 wood, gauls, britons, mauryans, persians
- "More stone" price: 100 wood 200 stone: romans, ptolemies, iberians

Then we have the small/large houses: iberians, celts, britons, mauryans and ptolomies have small and cheaper houses of 5 pop, while others have large ones with 10.

Disadvantages and advantages should follow a civilization design, and right now it's pretty random. Ptolomies have free buildings because a straight copy of AoM, not because some heavy design. Of course I agree on asymmetric balance (I have written in the forums for years!), but with some idea behind.

 

Edited by av93
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