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fatherbushido

Special buildings and so on

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I'll try to be short and so not comprehensive.

I open a related topic: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25504-special-units-and-so-on/

1) Special structures in "normal game"

A long time ago it was designed to have generic buildings but also civ specific special buildings. It's still present in design docs, fe: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Athenians#SPECIALSTRUCTURES.

I have nothing to add from the gameplay or the art point of view.

(From templates organization point of view, it's not always clear: they first inherited from the structure_special templates, then it went in all directions.)

2) Special structures already placed (in all or in some maps)

Then came other such buildings. One example is "stoa" https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/8341/

It seems the first intention was to put it in some scenario maps or perhaps all maps.

See those beautiful screenshots https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13519-arcadia-ii/&do=findComment&comment=210809

There was the longhouse in the same spirit https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/12669-simulation-progress/page/14/&tab=comments#comment-211206

There were other ideas the same spirit https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14955-the-alpha-7-preview-thread/&tab=comments#comment-222741

If I am not wrong, in the DE mod there was farther exploration of those ideas.

(From templates organization point of view, I always wondered where those buildings should take place and how they should fit in inheritance tree.)

3) Mismatch and so on

At a point where there were nothing really new, wfg moved some of those "atlas only" buildings to builder list.

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/20289-atlas-only-structures/&tab=comments#comment-311954

and commited in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/18024

I won't comment history. It was a choice at a specific point in time.

4) Questions

Stoa: there are still two stoa templates in the game. The one buildable by all civ in the game is called "royal stoa" which seems not accurate. https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/21570-royal-stoa/&tab=comments#comment-325182

Moreover it is used on a military purpose. Shouldn't it be use as a civic or economic purpose?

[...]

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Let's talk now.

Edited by fatherbushido
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Personally I'd recommend deprecating the SpecialBuilding class and templates. Civic, Defensive, Economic, Military are functional categories, but I don't see the added value of maintaining an additional Special group. The elephant stable, embassy, kennel, stable, and workshop unique structures already inherit from the military template, the colony and crannog from the civil centre; library, lighthouse, pillar, theatre, and wonder could easily be civic structures; as for the other special structures, I'm sure appropiate solutions can be found. Deprecating the Special category will make the templates/ folder easier to maintain and will also reduce confusion for future additions.

As for the template_structure_civic_hellenic_royal_stoa.xml, I'd highly recommend deleting or at least disabling it.

 

PS How is your fork project going?

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Special can perhaps have interest has a class.

I quote an old description of special buildings: "The following structures are unique to the individual factions, and have unique abilities and features." (that's not really helpful here but well it's said.)

screenshot0407.thumb.png.1ef8f54dfb3547f9612fb72b9cb05179.png

 

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Special doesn't mean it can't be categorized, so I concur with @Nescio. Organising structures by functionality seems the most sane option, for these special/unique characteristics these structures could have then an appropriate special type tag to categorize.

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Yeah we kinda agree, that's what classes are for.

But there is a difference between the  "first wave" of special buildings (the ones in design docs) and the "second wave" (the ones used in the DE manner - placed on the map and giving a bonus).

But well we can first focus on the above stoas?

Why those models? History? Wrong "Royal" name? Purpose? ...

Edited by fatherbushido
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18 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

But well we can first focus on the above stoas?

Why those models? History? Wrong "Royal" name? Purpose? ...

A stoa is simply a roofed colonnade or cloister, a generic structure that could have many functions. In Athens there were numerous stoas; one of them was called the Royal Stoa (στοά βασίλειος), this was the meeting place for a certain court, the one that tried Socrates. However, many stoas were simply used as granaries and storehouses, e.g.:

Quote

στοὰς δὲ καρποῦ Βακχίου τε νάματος
πλήρεις ὑποιγνύσαισι συμπαραστατεῖς·
καὶ ταῦτα συνδρῶν οὐ λαλεῖς τοῖς πλησίον.

We open up the brimming granaries
and stores of Bacchic juice – yet, true accomplice,
you never blab a word to other folk!

— Aristophanes Ecclesiazusae 14–16 (text and translation A. H. Sommerstein 2007)

In 0 A.D. the “Hellenic Royal Stoa” is a civic structure were some mercenary units can be recruited; as such, it would make more sense to set the `template_structure_military_embassy.xml` as their parent and delete the `template_structure_civic_hellenic_royal_stoa.xml`.

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From @Nescio's description and my brief research, Stoa is basically just part of Agora. Even the model of Hellenes' Agora consists of a Stoa and a fountain in its front yard. It makes more sense as an embassy indeed.

However if in the future 0 A.D decided to have different actor for civic center for different phases, the actors can come in handy. It is a nice progression from Stoa > Royal Stoa > Agora for Village > Town > City.

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