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Emperior

Ideas ?

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Hello everyone,

1. (no combat) Luring units - it is great idea to lure enemies or wild animals but I believe it is too simple to lure your whole army. When you hit for example hero, he will run as far as the other unit die. Luring gaia is fine like that, but for player the default stand of the unit should be "defensive", instead of simply aggressive. Which will allow you to lure ur enemy 1 by 1 but for shorter distance as units will automatically run back. Wild gaia animals would be still ok to be lured and eaten by our cavlary, chopped and puted to the cc. xd

2. (combat) Luring while fighting with big armies - I think when it comes to fights, units should attack closest enemy instead of following 1 unit which is simply running away (best example: take ur cav hero as a frontier, then move back to the back of ur army and simply each soldier will follow him, while enemy army will simply start killing your units.) Yes, I can do that manually but currently I think  top players abusing that as the advatange of the game, not as a player. (kinda lol) What could be the solution for that? If player select hero to attack, they will try to kill him mainly but if no selection has been made units should attack closest enemy. So if low HP unit will run away system should "leave it" and let player decide about that.

3. Hero amount of deaths - I thought mostly borg mod will have another illogical ideas such as eles being killers of the mighty spear cavlary... there are some amazing ideas. Main one  is: 1 life for hero per game. You have 3 picks. Once all die , you are left with no hero. Deal with it.

4. Dancing with your unit -  Yes, most of us knows whats that. How to simply fix that issue or at least reduce it? Remove patrol option for multiplayer. Did anyone use that anymore for patroling city in multiplayer? Not talking about newbies. None of us using it. I was one of the first starters who abused that, sadly. (there was maybe 1-5 people before me) Sadly, it is getting frustrating when you play team games and you know that none of them would actually do that in real life.  Another idea for this is to add a script which will react to multiply clicks on the ground without selected unit which will be counted as spam move. To dance manually u select an unit then u click from 1 point to another. As fast as you can so you will miss all arrows. 

By removing patrol and adding checker of spam move (clicking) dancing will be reduced at least. What do you think about that?

I don't think spamming clicks on the ground  of 1 unit should belong as ur main skill.(dancing) Simillar stupid idea was in Borg mod which had elephants being op killers of spear cavlary. xD ( ͡º ͜ʖ͡º)

 

@ everyone else lol 

@Feldfeld

@Hannibal_Barca

@elexis

@borg-

Edited by Emperior
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For 1:   I agree that default unit stand should be "Defensive."  Usually change my units to this.  Maybe an options settings to change the default?

For 2:  I'd recommend a "target units in this area on a first come basis and change target if they magicall "run" (i.e., formation) to get lured from one side to other chasing a unit" or some default "hit H every time enemy unit performs a magical "run" ."  The kill units on the way function present IG doesn't address this but I think it's the function that should be.

For 3:  The idea is :)

For 4:  I hate dancing.  The only time I've been happy for a dancer is when they were on my team.  Otherwise it absolutely ruins the game.  I think dancing should not be a possible feature.

 

Edited by Dizaka
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I haven't played much lately, and especially not in multiplayer, but does that "dancing" really have any effect on the game? In theory it sounds like you might spend a lot of time on one unit that could have been better spent on other things, but maybe I'm missing something :unsure:

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27 minutes ago, feneur said:

I haven't played much lately, and especially not in multiplayer, but does that "dancing" really have any effect on the game? In theory it sounds like you might spend a lot of time on one unit that could have been better spent on other things, but maybe I'm missing something :unsure:

For you seems funny. For most it is most hated thing in the game. Your troops focus the hero you cannot exclude attack on that hero which means hero stands in front all ur skrim, archers shoot hero. Missing all "bullets" so yes it is huge breaking game. Come and enjoy that during multiplayer.

 

Also you dont need to spend time elsewhere as you are already on "full eco, full armor" within 10-15 min.

 

Edited by Emperior
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Well, you should be able to manually order them to attack other units, sure it's not perfect, but should be a better use of your time than his dancing. Also, are you only attacking/defending in one place? I guess at least some maps might be too small for that to be all that important though.

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So you are saying I will be losing less time while clicking each other unit? Definitively I will be killing less units than i should or should actually try to select each unit to attack any other unit?  Seems a bit like troll answer, no offence but currently looks like it.

How to upload a replay from my game? JC is abusing that all the time but there is many, many more players who started to abuse that as their win for all, even with normal soldier. It helps a bit, just for a shorter time.

 

Edited by Emperior
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@feneur, the dancing thing is indeed quite a disruptive part of many MP matches. It reduces the overall strategy of the game in favor of obsessive compulsive unit micro. It's something that many people have been complaining about for a while. Not an easy fix, surely, but definitely worth the attention. I don't know to what extent @borg-'s mod addresses this issue?

Edited by Sundiata
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I am saying that I think it should be more effective than just leaving them to attack his hero, and that it should (in theory, so it might be completely wrong) be more effective than spending a lot of effort focusing on one unit. 

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7 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

@feneur, the dancing thing is indeed quite a disruptive part of many MP matches. It reduces the overall strategy of the game in favor of obsessive compulsive unit micro. It's something that many people have been complaining about for a while. Not an easy fix, surely, but definitely worth the attention. I Don't know to what extent @borg-'s mod addresses this issue?

Borg mod has 1 perfect idea done there. 1 hero = 1 life for the match.

Once ur hero dies he can't be reproduced until next match but he still have 3 chances as each nation has 3 heros with different bonuses. Still that isn't the perfect solution just by itself. That's why I wrote the topic with some ideas how to "at least reduce".

7 minutes ago, feneur said:

I am saying that it should be more effective than just leaving them to attack his hero, and that it should (in theory, so it might be completely wrong) be more effective than spending a lot of effort focusing on one unit. 

It doesn't hero stands in front of other units.

Your units face hero, his range units kills your units from the back. Hero simply dont get hit as he move from 1 place to another place. Each unit has own "recoil" for shooting as I am aware of which means if recoil is not 100% accurate then your units will always miss their shoot. You have option to move forward by losing already men with no fight at all but then you stop, enemy moves back, still he gets kills, you don't or at least too small numbers.

 

Lets say: from 100 enemy kills 50%, while you can kill 20% and  enemy rank up his units for free.

Edited by Emperior
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1 hour ago, Dizaka said:

For 1:   I agree that default unit stand should be "Defensive."  Usually change my units to this.  Maybe an options settings to change the default?

Ofc options are fine for whatever, but 'Defensive' also has its issues, at least for me. Especially when I forget units are on defensive, and they will abandon some battle to go back to some position I told them to go several commands earlier...

2. One of the many reasons I play on turtle-speed. The units are so dumb, and usually too incompetent to kill the fleeing unit anyway; even cavs chasing pedestrians... *rolling eyes*

3. Perma-death for heroes is fine for me.

4. I dont do MP, so I don't really have an opinion on dancing. Seems pretty lame, though.

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@feneur test it by yourself if you wish:

Take 1 hero (cav is best for that but still on foot does his job as well) with addition take some slingers with you. Lets say 10.

Enemy: Spawn 50 gaia troops.

 

Your job is simple:

select your hero as the frontier (meatshiled) when enemy ranged units will be attacking your hero click left to right (spam like that, really short distances like 2-3 step) It will look like you hero dancing while enemy ranged units will not get any kills. If you do it correcty.

 

They can always add "default stand as an option.

Some people prefer to play "normal speed".

@Gurken Khan

Edited by Emperior
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8 minutes ago, Emperior said:

Some people prefer to play "normal speed".

And that's perfectly fine! :)

I just can't stand my units dying because of some stupid !"§$% I would've done differently if I was there... (Which on turtle I mostly can.)

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Just now, Gurken Khan said:

And that's perfectly fine! :)

I just can't stand my units dying because of some stupid !"§$% I would've done differently if I was there... (Which on turtle I mostly can.)

For you it is a bit different if you don't play multiplayer. Main issue is on multiplayer, so all changes can be done excluding single player / ai fights.

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The problem is that the counter to hero dance is microing practically each unit (impossible to do) of your army (120 units average) while he only has to micro the hero which is clearly easier.

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Ranged units should randomly pick 1 out of the 10 nearest enemy units to attack.

This will literally solve the issue and we'll have more organic ranged combat as well.

Currently ranged units always target the nearest unit. That's the core of the problem. They should spread fire.

Edited by Sundiata
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@Sundiata Sorry my fault. I didnt get what you said firstly, now i got it. My fault, sorry.

Still dancing would give some advantage of doing it. Few units can be more important in many cases than we can think of, but it would help a lot.

Edited by Emperior
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3 minutes ago, Emperior said:

@Sundiata I think all types of unit should kill nearest but still hero would be nearst. ;p Which means it wouldn't help that much thats why "spam block would be nice".

If they randomly target 1 out 10 of the nearest units (in range), fire would automatically be spread across the 10 nearest units, not just the hero in front, who is only 1/10th of the selection. If 100 archers are in range to fire on an enemy group of 9 units and a dancing hero in front, the hero would only receive 1 out of ten arrows. Which means 10 arrows target the hero, and the other 90 arrows target the 9 other units within range, but behind the hero. 

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4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Battalions. ;) 

If that would be another total war game style, I would uinstall. :| Reducing my abillity to raid, fight in smaller groups.

 

6 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

If they randomly target 1 out 10 of the nearest units (in range), fire would automatically be spread across the 10 nearest units, not just the hero in front, who is only 1/10th of the selection. If 100 archers are in range to fire on an enemy group of 9 units and a dancing hero in front, the hero would only receive 1 out of ten arrows. Which means 10 arrows target the hero, and the other 90 arrows target the 9 other units within range, but behind the hero. 

Still its all about random stuff. I think it could be done by script "anty-spam" click on the ground. Once has been detected auto kill hero, if only 1 life per match... He lose him for whole game.

 

 

Edited by Emperior

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1 minute ago, Emperior said:

If that would be another total war game style, I would uinstall. :| Reducing my abillity to raid, fight in smaller groups.

 

I want battles, not Raids R Us RTS simulator. I want to be a military commander, not a pirate. ;) 

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Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I want battles, not Raids R Us RTS simulator. I want to be a military commander, not a pirate. ;) 

We all have different wishes. I created this topic about current build of 0ad and current gameplay. If would be changed completely now i would do whatever i said before.

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37 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Elephants should be killers of cavalry, as they were in almost every military engagement between the two. :) 

Imagine:

1 ele stands and attacks, cav run hit , run hit. Cavlary won't stand in front elephant and ask him "how are you". Anyway thats not the topic about that.

 

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4 hours ago, Emperior said:

If that would be another total war game style, I would uinstall. :| Reducing my abillity to raid, fight in smaller groups.

 

 

 

eh.... nope, total war isn't base building game.

Try Ancerstor Legacy, Praetorians, Battle for the Middle Earth and Rise and Fall : Civilizations at war.

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Hace 8 horas, el emperador dijo:

Entonces, ¿está diciendo que perderé menos tiempo al hacer clic en cada unidad? Definitivamente, ¿mataré menos unidades de las que debería o debería intentar seleccionar cada unidad para atacar a otra unidad? Parece un poco como respuesta de troll, sin ofender, pero actualmente parece que lo es.

¿Cómo subir una repetición de mi juego? JC está abusando de eso todo el tiempo, pero hay muchos, muchos más jugadores que comenzaron a abusar de eso como su victoria para todos, incluso con un soldado normal. Ayuda un poco, solo por un tiempo más corto.

Me llaman Michael Jackson, soy el jefe de la danza. Resolveré tus dudas con ello.  

He encontrado una manera efectiva de beneficiar a mi parkinson, me encanta. Bailar es vida, bailar es amor.

De todos modos estoy de acuerdo con sus puntos, excepto la selección de modo. Actualmente encuentro esa característica muy bien agregada, tal vez porque me acostumbré.

Paz.

Edited by camel
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