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stanislas69

===[COMMITTED]=== Gaul Theatron

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It seems nice like this. How is the back side? Not looking too much empty? I know they put something to cover the stairs in the 3D model but I don't think it will fit with your general design.

And what is your own opinion? Do want something to enhance the ambient (artistic pattern, pottery, or any other goods)?

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image.pngimage.png

Backside is a bit empty could add wicker (like on the left), but not sure it's gonna look better, so I think it fine as it is.

34 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Do want something to enhance the ambient (artistic pattern, pottery, or any other goods)?

Not sure I get your meaning.

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3 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Not sure I get your meaning.

En gros, est-ce que tu voudrais rajouter des objets pour embellir le bâtiment ou remplir la scène?

For example, the Roman account the importance of military standard to make an oath. Maybe we can display some military standards known for the Gauls, maybe a few carnyx as well.

Quote

Caesar, 7, 2: While these things are in agitation, the Carnutes declare "that they would decline no danger for the sake of the general safety, and promise" that they would be the first of all to begin the war; and since they can not at present take precautions, by giving and receiving hostages, that the affair shall not be divulged, they require that a solemn assurance be given them by oath and plighted honor, their military standards being brought together (in which manner their most sacred obligations are made binding), that they should not be deserted by the rest of the Gauls on commencing the war.

It is just an idea I throw around.

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2 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Maybe we can display some military standards known for the Gauls, maybe a few carnyx

Yeah why not. More props sound nice. Are shields correct ?

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1 hour ago, stanislas69 said:

Backside is a bit empty could add wicker (like on the left),

It is not that bad. Wicker is an interesting idea I think. It is very easy to embellish a wicker construction, with pattern, different woods or painting.

Spoiler

Simple color patterns examples on some pottery:

5de533f5f3c2725b9f4106c22b9ce7e7.pngimage.png.e5609664a4dfe957e61166095ad0ddc5.pngimage.png.eb288169c30051b8e38b528fccfa54ed.png

 

47 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Are shields correct ?

The shape yes. The shield boss should be in iron to be more accurate. I wonder if the shield hanging around is not making the environment messy.

47 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Yeah why not. More props sound nice.

  1. The boar-standard is definitely proven:
  2. Spear-standard, horse-standard and bull-standard are also seriously suspected.

11 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

What's this gonna be?


A building I suggest to call Remogantion, the assembly of the princes. Representing the assembly of the Gallic "senators" mentioned by Caesar. It could be the building for the recruitment of the champion cav unit and maybe some others late units.

 

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8 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

A building I suggest to call Remogantion, the assembly of the princes. Representing the assembly of the Gallic "senators" mentioned by Caesar. It could be the building for the recruitment of the champion cav unit and maybe some others late units.

 

Hmm, seems kind of, dunno, not very creative to just make it another barracks.

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3 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

What's this gonna be?

Can't find the discussion anymore, but it's supposed to replace the inaccurate Gaulish tavern.

4 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

The shield boss should be in iron to be more accurate

Can really edit the texture for now, as it's shared among all the other shields, but it should be noted somewhere. I'm really starting to think we should start using trac tickets again to keep track of everything that should be changed in the game.

6 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

It is not that bad. Wicker is an interesting idea I think. It is very easy to embellish a wicker construction, with pattern, different woods or painting.

We have painted wicker, but no paintings, because it's shared as well.

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8 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Hmm, seems kind of, dunno, not very creative to just make it another barracks.

Fair point. This assembly can have different purposes but most of the idea are already used in the game: heroes recruitment, territory extension, increasing capture resistance nearby and military upgrades research for examples. In my mind, it could have been the place to recruit clientship units of the late La Tène period (archers, ambactos etc.) or to research their upgrades enabling them. But as an innovative idea, I see the possibility to produce some standard-bearers or some carnyx players. 

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9 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

see the possibility to produce some standard-bearers or some carnyx players. 

From a gameplay pov what would be there use ? Aura boosters ? :)

The building could also boost trade income or have some specific technologies :)

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50 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

From a gameplay pov what would be there use ? Aura boosters ? :)

Aura booster for the player units or even aura malus for enemies. The Carnyx were described as scarying the Mediterranean troops when they are not used to hear it. Maybe the soundtrack used by EB2 could be used, they have carnyx playing as battle soundtrack. Maybe it is in the CC license. I need to check. 

Edit: it is actually a soundtrack from John Kenny. I don't know if they got his permission. 

Edit2: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?702760-Celtic-Campaign-Theme-(music)

50 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

The building could also boost trade income or have some specific technologies

Mmm, yeah why not. Maybe a boost related to the number of civic centers owned by the players. The historical justification is an increase of pagus and civitas (territories) under the authority of the assembly as vassals and clients. An increase of tribute as a consequence. 

Edited by Genava55

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13 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

Thoughts ?

Could you replace the barrels with pottery or baskets? Stave-and-hoop barrels are well attested for the European Middle Ages, but I'm not sure they already existed in Antiquity.

Also, why the roof? It looks a bit heavy for the skeletal structure, especially in case of snow. If the purpose is to provide shade, perhaps use cloth instead? At least that's what was used in Roman theatres.

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7 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Could you replace the barrels with pottery or baskets?

I believe gauls actually invented them https://www.tonnellerie-cavin.com/barrel-history/?lang=en

8 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Also, why the roof?

As I said in the other gaul thread, it's too fit better the rest of the set, we don't have any clothes hanging anywhere and I was afraid the building would look out of place.

 

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13 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Could you replace the barrels with pottery or baskets? Stave-and-hoop barrels are well attested for the European Middle Ages, but I'm not sure they already existed in Antiquity.

From the Gallo-Roman period (2nd century AD I think)

image.png.eef0fc88f944b78f9be75dd714658ebd.png

image.png.7551358c47faafa692cb007079c0d7d7.png

image.png.8043ea0f678b8322df285d1a733d0c75.png

But I agree for the potteries. There also decorated bucket from the Late La Tène period.

image.png.d59fe9cbbbdf69a0a8bcf7471f88b3ec.pngimage.png.db76e74c97667be7594927e5463603f1.pngimage.png.65cb3cb35ba91145eab4eacfe22e33f7.png

image.thumb.png.dd67179cf1cb87369cad69e406d6c2d0.png

Roman amphora are as well attested on the Corent hemicycle, it is suspected they drank wine and ritually "killed" the amphora to seal the deal. I don't have any problem with the idea of stuff like barrels, potteries and buckets. Maybe just avoid the cliché of putting it everywhere like a messy place (under the rows/tiers for example, it has no sense).

Edited by Genava55
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2 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

like a messy place (under the stairs for example, it has no sense).

Sure, under the stairs was to fill the void before I added the wicker. Wouldn't adding pottery and baskets make it even more messy ?

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15 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Sure, under the stairs was to fill the void before I added the wicker.

Fair enough.

15 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Wouldn't adding pottery and baskets make it even more messy ? 

It depends if there is a meaning behind their addition. For example if there are small places with a few buckets in reserve, drinking services, a few potteries for food, two or three barrels, it could make sense as a preparation for the distribution of these during an assembly. Maybe on the sides of the front scene if I can suggest you.

Edited by Genava55

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4 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Fair enough.

I will remove it :)

4 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

It depends if there is a sense behind their addition. For example if there are small places with a few buckets in reserve, drinking services, a few potteries for food, two or three barrels, it could make sense as a preparation for the distribution of these during an assembly. Maybe on the sides of the front scene if I can suggest you.

I'll see what I can come up with though my option are kinda limited when it comes to textures.

19 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

image.png.eef0fc88f944b78f9be75dd714658ebd.png

Should all the barrels have three rows ? like this

 

barrel_new.pngbarrel_old.png

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2 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

I'll see what I can come up with though my option are kinda limited when it comes to textures. 

Yes I understand. It is not necessary urgent, maybe Wacky and Alexander can help for these things in the future.

6 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Should all the barrels have three rows ? like this

Good question. By checking on the literature, I think there is a huge diversity of typology during the Gallo-Roman period:

https://www.persee.fr/doc/galia_0016-4119_2001_num_58_1_3179

image.png.af2599ed7fe6c93f97aec18c4fde54bd.png

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So the current barrel is still historically accurate ? :)

 

14 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Yes I understand. It is not necessary urgent, maybe Wacky and Alexander can help for these things in the future.

Yeah, the idea would be to add nice props to make the building interesting. A sketch would really help though. a little paintover in mspaint for instance.

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3 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

So the current barrel is still historically accurate ? :) 

For me it is ok. The technic to circle the barrel with iron is already known at this time, since it is used to do the same for chariot wheels.

4 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Yeah, the idea would be to add nice props to make the building interesting. A sketch would really help though. a little paintover in mspaint for instance. 

Ok! I will try to do some sketches.

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35 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

image.png

I'm just dropping by to say how much I love this! Excellent work! 

Celts are indeed the civ par excellence to showcase wooden barrels as they are widely believed to have invented it, as you say. 

At first I would have advocated for draping cloth as the "roof", but I think the thatch turned out really nice, and that wooden frame is definitely strong enough to hold it. Even in wattle and daub buildings, the walls aren't normally load baring. The load is normally carried by wooden posts, so the load bearing capacity of the posts in your design is very similar to any other non-stone structure in their roster.

I think this building really helps to illustrate to more "civilized"/complex/social organizational aspects of the Gauls. 

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5 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

I believe gauls actually invented them https://www.tonnellerie-cavin.com/barrel-history/?lang=en

5 hours ago, Genava55 said:

From the Gallo-Roman period (2nd century AD I think)

5 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Thanks!

Also, when you add the gaul theatre template, don't forget to change its costs:

      <wood>0</wood>
      <stone>500</stone>
      <metal>500</metal>

 

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The effect of gauls theatron would be the same as helenic?

Maybe you could have a stone foundation, to make your stone cost realistic?

Edited by borg-

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