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Monder87

0AD Economy Simulation Mod

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@Rolf Dew Thanks, very interesting, i think my concept is quite similar to settlers, but i admit i didn t knew this game, i will defenetley look in it more deep. You can also give me already your opinion on which features you think would be cool have in this mod, that are already in settlers:)

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18 hours ago, Monder87 said:

@Rolf Dew Thanks, very interesting, i think my concept is quite similar to settlers, but i admit i didn t knew this game, i will defenetley look in it more deep. You can also give me already your opinion on which features you think would be cool have in this mod, that are already in settlers:)

Another feature of the settlers, is to have weapons made from processed minerals, so that military units would then require resources and a certain amount of weapons.

Also there was taxes that tax collectors collected from workers and freemen earnings, the taxes were generally a certain percentage of the individuals earnings and was adjustable, like low taxes or no taxes have increased happiness but less money and population growth and higher taxes decreased happiness but more money!

Workers could also strike if there happiness was too low. There was also titles that the player got when they aged up, to get the titles one would have to have certain buildings and population to gain the title and access to the next tier of buildings.

Finally there was entertainment buildings that allowed freemen and workers to spend their money there to gain more happiness. Another thing they had was clothes made from wool and animal skins, freemen and workers would then buy these clothes too. There was multiple types of food building too with a variety of food makers for processing different types of food into meals that freemen and workers could buy.

The clothing, food and entertainment would affect a units happiness and productiveness. Another feature that might be nice is the chance of uprisings, like slave or population uprising when needs are very bad, perhaps those units could start attacking soldiers and damaging buildings until their needs are met

Edited by Rolf Dew
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Like Tropico. 

Ive been playing DoM since the release and it’s really awesome. Though there’s not much military involved yet but I think once you level up playing and have achievements it wil be very tough. What was in YouTube earlier were just the lowest level and if you are ready to play the harder ones ahead with probably tribal wars it’s going to be really tough. 

The economic aspect is really great. Plenty of resources,  trees are regrown, fish too. Resources like wild plants, fruits, nuts etc are seasonal harvested as well as farm products. Taming young animals, hunting too are really natural. Minerals might not replenish but aplenty. There’s so many realistic mechanics though structures are really not good looking, anyhow you can’t expect much from very early peoples of this world. 

I hope 0ad or mod can be like this one day. 

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Thanks for all suggestion i took note of everything said.  I Check in Settlers 6 and i got some reference. I think we can start developing the all products that will be consumed together with the basic resources by our citizens.

Here the table i created:

4 Basic resources:

  • food
  • wood
  • stone
  • metal

with the food divided in 7 subcategories :

  • milk
  • herbs
  • oil
  • meat
  • grain
  • fruit
  • wool ( is not food but we insert here for simplicity)

Form these resources each Producer would be able to process them and create one of the following 20 products depending of its speciality:

Food

  • bread
  • cheese
  • sausage
  • soup
  • beer
  • cake

Cleaning

  • soap
  • broom
  • parfume

Clothes

  • woolen clothes
  • leather clothes
  • shoes

Decorations

  • banners
  • indoor Decorations
  • outdoor Decorations
  • jewellery

Military

  • swords
  • shield
  • bows
  • machine engine

 

Here you can see what each product require to be processed:

  • 1999312559_ScreenShot2019-03-09at7_57_57PM.thumb.png.7f22705550a3abd1fea62252a820ae2d.png

 

In addition to the products there are also three services:

  • Entertainment (artist, circus)
  • Transportation(city delivery, intercity trade, interciv trade)
  • Building (builders, the onlyone allowed to build)

Unless products, services cannot be stoked by the consumer, but has to be pay in the moment

Edited by Monder87
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Small Updates... After developing all products ( i will implement soon in the Mod) , is important to set prices, for this i developed a product Manager Component, which will keep track of all products produced and consumed every 5 Min of game play,  if the products consumed are more than that produced the price for that kind of product will get higher , if instead the produced are more than that consumed, the price will go down. 

To give a more Trading Dimension i decided to divide all the game Economy in Cities Economies, that mean that the prices are calculated for each city, independently of all other cities, ( doesn't matter if 1 player has more cities, all cities even if owned by 1 player are still independent to each other)  this give a real trade opportunity and peculiar economic output for each city. To keep truck of each city  products, producers, price and stats, i am developing the Economy Panel, which will replace the 0AD trading Panel. I also decided to give more identity to each city, assigning to each of them 1 unique name, and also display it on top of the 3d Model.

Here the Economic Panel  so far:  you can see all cities in the game, each has a unique name (i add the number 2 after the name when the cities name list of that civ is expired) and the player color . I will soon add the functionality to click on one city and show all producers, products and price .

520138389_ScreenShot2019-03-23at2_36_45PM.thumb.png.7c626d44033dd97ece0ab94f1fe047c7.png

Here the name for each city will appear on top of the 3d model :

1572869893_ScreenShot2019-03-23at2_17_19PM.thumb.png.966e40997b1f5d8e31cb327a34fb8a19.png

 

About cities names i need help, i want to keep all the names historically correct, so if someone with good historical knowledge  can provide me at least 10 name of city for each Civ, so far i just added 10 name of Carthage Civ , i even not sure are correct. Thanks

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4 hours ago, Monder87 said:

To give a more Trading Dimension i decided to divide all the game Economy in Cities Economies,

Nice...

 

4 hours ago, Monder87 said:

About cities names i need help, i want to keep all the names historically correct, so if someone with good historical knowledge  can provide me at least 10 name of city for each Civ, so far i just added 10 name of Carthage Civ , i even not sure are correct. Thanks

For Kush at least, I can provide the following names of some of the most important cities during 0AD's timeframe (archaeological sites containing the excavated remains of one or more of the following: City/Royal Palace/Amun Temple/Royal Necropolis), followed by the historical name, where known:

  • Napata (Npt/Napita) 
  • Meroë (Medewi/Birawe)
  • Naqa (Tolkte/twjlkt)
  • Kawa (Gematon/Gempaten)
  • Tabo (Pnubs)
  • Sanam 
  • Dangeil 
  • Basa
  • Sedeinga
  • Sonijat (Tergedus) 
  • Muweis
  • Karanog (Premnis/Pedeme)
  • Dakka (Pselchis/Pselqet)
  • Hamadab 
  • Amara East 
Edited by Sundiata
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as promised i developed the City Economy Panel, once clicked on a city from the Economy Panel we will get all the information of its economy: 

1) this is the city with 3 consumers:

1803097703_ScreenShot2019-03-24at9_35_27PM.thumb.png.5ba8c202f94d16b4ca2bc3c4274783b9.png

2) here i click the economy Panel on the top right menu ( ex Trading Panel ) and all city in the game will appear ( in this test is just one )

1854103369_ScreenShot2019-03-24at9_45_55PM.thumb.png.1aa4f8f1555e532dea9a8862c9f5b17f.png

3) now i click on the city button and i have the main dashboard of the City Economy:

in here appear 3 main component: 

- Population

  - the tot number of consumer in the city

  - the average happiness of the city consumers

- Details

  - the producers button, where is possible to explore all different producers and their products (i will develop it soon)

  - the products button, where is instead focus only to list all the available products and prices (i will develop it soon)

- Economy Chart 

Here is possible to have a quickly look to the city economy performance looking at GDP and consumes during time

1448078295_ScreenShot2019-03-24at9_34_43PM.thumb.png.0d7a5613852411257ad4a9e79909d0ff.png

 Next i will develop the producers and products panel , after that we should have all the tools to track all cities economies.

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Hi everyone! as planned before, following the products table, i start adding new resources in the game, in the specific i added 8 subTypes in the Food Resource:

 

4 Basic resources:

  • food
  • wood
  • stone
  • metal

with the food divided in 8 subcategories :

  • fish
  • milk
  • herbs
  • oil
  • meat
  • grain
  • fruit
  • wool ( is not food but we insert here for simplicity)

101929547_ScreenShot2019-03-30at4_24_59PM.png.13f1bf9996f45672ce86e574c5679131.png

 

525205492_ScreenShot2019-03-30at4_24_38PM.png.e62c7c69b9276360afd7b877b02c3ac2.png

Now are all accessible from the resource bar in the top , just clicking the food icon, this the small clip to show you:

Edited by Monder87
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50 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I feel like the coin icon needs to be 10% smaller to match the others. 

Yep, i ll make it smaller :) i think all icons and graphic in the alpha version will be replaced, now i m really focus in code and functionalities. Would be very nice have also some collaborator for the code and also for the art part, very soon would be necessary add a lot of entities for each civ, with specific animation and 3d models. Everyone interested can contact me here or in private. 

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11 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This is super cool, but I'm wondering if it shouldn't drop down under the raw material icon like a list. 

Thanks @wowgetoffyourcellphone! Yes that was my original idea too, but after i though would be helpful keep tracking the resourse level during the game,  if was vertical that would cover the scene unless the player keep clicking all the time to check them, instead keep the bar horizontal let the view clear and at the same time let the player know each resource level. 

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i got a question to ask the community: i completed now the resources panel and i also implemented all the code to let the gatherer add the resource in its subcategory.  So far so good, but now while i m developing the productsManager Component ( this component keep track of all cities economies in the game, and is the data source used to populate the economy panel i show you few post above) i got a design dilemma, maybe you guys can give me your opinion.

this the situation:

the gatherer ( i m planning to use just slave for all gathering task ) work, let s say in a grain farm ( as a slave is himself property of a grain farmer, who own the farm , the slaves and all resources collected) , collect the grain resource (subType of Food ), every 10 grain collected he go to drop in the civ center or in the farm stead .. (1st concept i feel not sure, should we instead have farms that can  stock their own production? ) .. all the grain is being added in the player resource counter and is available to be used by the player (2nd concept i feel not sure, should we instead as a player buy the resources from the farmer just when needed ? ) every resource collected and dropped by the slave , the farmer will gain some coin, so as a player we can use or resell that resource to every other producers or trader who need it , earning money from it. 

what you guys think? i m confuse because i want it realistic and historically correct but also simple and functional as a game .

 

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In my opinion, the collected resource should be put in maybe like a storage or granary building once the slave gathers a certain amount of the resource (in the meantime while the slave gathers the sufficient amount of resources to take to the storage place, they can store it at the farm itself, until it reaches that amount), once in the storage place, the resource should be available to the player for use.

The storage place should have a storage limit and other traders and merchants should be able to get the resources from the storage place and turn it into usable goods. For example the baker will buy (bought from the player of course) wheat from the storage place and turn it into bread, that will be sold to everyone else. The farmer for example should receive payment from the player when they put their Harvest in the storage place.

Once the storage place is full, the player should have the option of purging some resources for more space or selling them to neighboring towns. Note only raw resources should be stored at storage places. Processed resources should be stored at the respective shops (which should have a storage limit of course) and processing buildings. The player should be able to trade processed goods with other towns too imo.

The player should be able imo to get coin by sending out tax collecters automatically (after some game time that would represent a month or whatever time span), the tax collectors should collect a portion of the people's money (the amount collected is dependant on the whether it is high taxes, medium , low or no taxes of course).

Players should be able to use coin and weapons to train soldiers and to buy needed resources at a high price if there is a shortage of something.

Finally, I think traders and merchants should be able to strike if their happiness is to low and slaves should be able to have an armed uprising if their happiness is too low.

Owners of slaves, like farmers should have the option to overwork slaves to get resources faster but this should steadily decrease their morale, the slaves should be adjustable, with lower workloads increasing their happiness and higher workloads increasing their unhappiness and chance to cause an armed uprising. Slaves that cause an uprising  should attack free citizens, soldiers and loot and damage buildings. 

Maybe once a certain amount of slaves are killed then they should be forced to go back to work.

Edited by Rolf Dew
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In my opinion, the collected resource should be put in maybe like a storage or granary building once the slave gathers a certain amount of the resource (in the meantime while the slave gathers the sufficient amount of resources to take to the storage place, they can store it at the farm itself, until it reaches that amount), once in the storage place, the resource should be available to the player for use.

i think make sense, each resource provider like farmer, fisher man, miner has to have a dedicated structure which can store just a limited amount of resource, after that the provider need to pay some delivery service( which can transport much more resources than a bunch of slaves ) or use his own slave to bring the resources in the main City Storage. Once dropped in the storage the provider will get his money from the player.

Quote

The storage place should have a storage limit and other traders and merchants should be able to get the resources from the storage place and turn it into usable goods. For example the baker will buy (bought from the player of course) wheat from the storage place and turn it into bread, that will be sold to everyone else. The farmer for example should receive payment from the player when they put their Harvest in the storage place.

yes i agree the city storage will be the pick up point to every producer to get the resources to produce their respective products,  and is interesting the concept  to put a storage limit on it. That would push the player to build more than a city storage for each city.

But i also want to say about this that all resources are divided in different city storages but are counted in all their total in the top bar resource counter. I think the player when need resources to create new soldier or buildings should be able to access them   from everywhere  anytime , this to keep the game play fluid. When used the resources will be decreased proportionally to each city storage owned by the player. But i am open to discuss about this.

At exception of the player, all other entities need instead to go buy the resources in the nearest city storage

Quote

Processed resources should be stored at the respective shops (which should have a storage limit of course) and processing buildings. The player should be able to trade processed goods with other towns too imo.

Yes that is true, i m planning to give to each producer a limited resource storage , about the trading the player can trade using the market structure and the delivery services,  i will explain soon how this will work, basically there will be city delivery service ( which account all goods transportation in the city), intercity delivery services ( where the delivery provider on the will of a intercity trader, will to buy from the producers of another city goods and will drop it to the Market Structure , where consumers in the time will go to buy from it. Basically the intercity trader own just a  market slot ( shop ), and the actual delivery is done buy a intercity delivery provider) and inter Civilization delivery, where the trader can go trade with other players cities , basically like intercity delivery but with some extra function like don t be attacked by the other player even if enemy (about this i was planning to give a bonus of friendship each trade, so more interciv trade can create alliance between player). 

Also about goods i am planning to make it possible to steal goods and resources, so for example if one delivery service provider is attacked and killed, will drop on the field all resources and goods and can be collected by the attacker(of course need to have the capability to carry them to the nearest city storage (if resources ) or market ( if products) ). I think this make it possible a lot of strategy dynamics in the game, for example attacking another player city would be not just destroy its structures but also focus on destroy the city storages, so would be possible steal the resources, same for the markets about goods.

 

Quote

Finally, I think traders and merchants should be able to strike if their happiness is to low and slaves should be able to have an armed uprising if their happiness is too low.

Yes the happiness was exactly being created with this purpose, let uprising and work performance rate possible, citizens not happy produce less, consume less and in the worst can uprise.

Thanks  @Rolf Dew for sharing ideas, very usefully,  if you not agree with some concepts please let me know same for all other community member, more we share more we can rich the economy system

Edited by Monder87
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Hi everyone! i finally created the first producer: the Carthage Baker,  i also implemented also the producer panel which is split in two part, one is the catalogue, where the producer store the product produced, and the second is the actual stock of raw material.

In this case the baker need grain and wood to make bread (following the product table created few post above) 

Screen Shot 2019-04-14 at 12.45.07 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-04-14 at 12.48.01 PM.png

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This is instead the implementation  of the products in the economy panel: 

  •  we set a small economy with 1 City Center , 3 bakers, 3 builders and 4 farmers ( please don t mind now the white building, that will be the storehouse in the future )

1269058561_ScreenShot2019-04-14at2_57_00PM.png.b31b5fd6a85908647909c9010355515c.png

  • we open the economy panel and we select the city of Carthage and we click the products button

2115706167_ScreenShot2019-04-14at3_04_34PM.png.62808b4b86d41526fbef67d5e74db3df.png1605246268_ScreenShot2019-04-14at3_04_47PM.thumb.png.0dde747577aa3ecfc1e293641827f407.png

  • now is possible to see all products available in the city. If no product available the icons will keep be grey color.

In our case because the only producers are the bakers , and each carry 100 breads we got a total of 300 breads.

Next i will set the real prices for each products (240 is not real) . Also i added a buy all button for traders , but i am still not sure if i will keep it

1845411837_ScreenShot2019-04-14at2_59_59PM.thumb.png.43d2d513af9f2580ef5acaf901192f27.png

 

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Maybe you could implement some kind of tax system, where part of the produce of the farmers would be taken by the government (player). That would be cool also because the player could maybe put lower or higher taxes, which would influence in the population happiness (I guess). But I don't know how these tax systems worked in the past... especially with things like bread etc (I don't think the government would take a number of breads from the baker... probably just part of his income? Not sure...)

By the way, very nice mod! Looking forward to play it!

Edited by coworotel
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1 hour ago, coworotel said:

Maybe you could implement some kind of tax system, where part of the produce of the farmers would be taken by the government (player). That would be cool also because the player could maybe put lower or higher taxes, which would influence in the population happiness (I guess). But I don't know how these tax systems worked in the past... especially with things like bread etc (I don't think the government would take a number of breads from the baker... probably just part of his income? Not sure...)

By the way, very nice mod! Looking forward to play it!

Sure, the Tax System is one of the first concept i implemented from the beginning, each time a entity earn money because produce, gather or perform a service, a variable amount of money are being collected and added to the player money resource counter. I still have to implement the GUI for the tax, but will be soon. If my job will allow me to have little more free time,  i was thinking to create also the tax collector entity, that would be cool, instead to get a percent each earn automatically, we would set that percent and send our tax collectors all around the city to get the money. Of cource the financial status affect the happiness, and many tax can create uprising. This will be implemented soon. 

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On 3/23/2019 at 2:43 AM, Monder87 said:

About cities names i need help, i want to keep all the names historically correct, so if someone with good historical knowledge  can provide me at least 10 name of city for each Civ, so far i just added 10 name of Carthage Civ , i even not sure are correct. Thanks

For the Athenians civ:

Acharnae

Aphidnae

Athens (of course)

Cephisia

Cytherus

Decelea

Delos

Eleusis

Laurium

Marathon

Phaeleron

Piraeus

Plataea

Rhamnous

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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On 4/18/2019 at 3:38 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

For the Athenians civ:

Acharnae

Aphidnae

Athens (of course)

Cephisia

Cytherus

Decelea

Delos

Eleusis

Laurium

Marathon

Phaeleron

Piraeus

Plataea

Rhamnous

Thanks, i will add these cities in the next commit ;)

Edited by Monder87

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Thanks to @Sundiata and @wowgetoffyourcellphone to contribute with Kush and Athens.

  As promised added both Kush and Athens cities names:

 

1633977341_ScreenShot2019-04-20at1_52_22PM.thumb.png.36e60a410097477f0a25f7c7e67e746b.png

 

1205602415_ScreenShot2019-04-20at1_34_46PM.thumb.png.fa06b51d7d330afd47252ab558b484a9.png

  

3 Done and 10 to do, please contribute !

  • Athenians V
  • Britons
  • Carthaginians V
  • Gauls
  • Iberians
  • Kushites V
  • Macedonians
  • Mauryans
  • Persians
  • Ptolemies
  • Romans
  • Seleucids
  • Spartans

 

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