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Alexandermb

===[TASK]=== Iberian Unit Props Update

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30 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

That would indeed work nicely for Carthage. I think it should sit more naturally on his head though. (y) 

I agree.

35 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

i belive this is used by cart army isn't it?

image.png

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image.pngimage.pngimage.pngimage.pngimage.pngimage.png

 

For other inspirations:

 
 
angel-gabriel-diaz-romero-iberian-cap-01-screen-01x.jpg?1517148115
 
 
angel-gabriel-diaz-romero-iberian-cap-03-screen-01x.jpg?1517148117
 
 
angel-gabriel-diaz-romero-iberian-cap-helmet-01-screen-01.jpg?1517148119
 
 
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So, I have this idea about incorporating the Celtiberians in the current Iberian faction. The Kushites have this Nuba Villages right? And the Carthaginians have access to Celtic Embassies. Most of the current game factions have some sort of mercenary camp which they could build. The Athenians, Spartans and Macedonians have access to the Royal Stoa. The Diadochi factions have the military colonies. What if we create a Celtic Village structure for the Iberians, where they could recruit Celtic unit rosters. This building will fuction like a military colony where resources could be dropped and could be garrisoned. This is also a great way of showcasing the Celtiberian architecture in a single structure in the game.

@Genava55 @feneur @Itms @LordGood @stanislas69 @Alexandermb

 

 

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3 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

So, I have this idea about incorporating the Celtiberians in the current Iberian faction. The Kushites have this Nuba Villages right? And the Carthaginians have access to Celtic Embassies. Most of the current game factions have some sort of mercenary camp which they could build. The Athenians, Spartans and Macedonians have access to the Royal Stoa. The Diadochi factions have the military colonies. What if we create a Celtic Village structure for the Iberians, where they could recruit Celtic unit rosters. This building will fuction like a military colony where resources could be dropped and could be garrisoned. This is also a great way of showcasing the Celtiberian architecture in a single structure in the game.

@Genava55 @feneur @Itms @LordGood @stanislas69 @Alexandermb

 

 

I definitely agree with this.

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7 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

So, I have this idea about incorporating the Celtiberians in the current Iberian faction. The Kushites have this Nuba Villages right? And the Carthaginians have access to Celtic Embassies. Most of the current game factions have some sort of mercenary camp which they could build. The Athenians, Spartans and Macedonians have access to the Royal Stoa. The Diadochi factions have the military colonies. What if we create a Celtic Village structure for the Iberians, where they could recruit Celtic unit rosters. This building will fuction like a military colony where resources could be dropped and could be garrisoned. This is also a great way of showcasing the Celtiberian architecture in a single structure in the game.

@Genava55 @feneur @Itms @LordGood @stanislas69 @Alexandermb

 

 

dont forget Balearic units, @soloooy0 remind me every single month, he is Spaniard/Castilian is his ancestor's culture.

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now we definitely could make that work artistically, but does the Iberian roster call for it? This is a gameplay change, after all

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As for someone who plays the game for casual single player, I could not think of a good justification gameplay-wise. I am suggesting this to amend the historical inefficiencies that was noticed by @Genava55 Altough I am not sure myself if Iberians and Celtiberians often cooperated in the past. The case is just the same for the newly added Kushite faction. It already has too many units but it was still given two mercenary barracks to instill historicity.

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18 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

So, I have this idea about incorporating the Celtiberians in the current Iberian faction. The Kushites have this Nuba Villages right? And the Carthaginians have access to Celtic Embassies. Most of the current game factions have some sort of mercenary camp which they could build. The Athenians, Spartans and Macedonians have access to the Royal Stoa. The Diadochi factions have the military colonies. What if we create a Celtic Village structure for the Iberians, where they could recruit Celtic unit rosters. This building will fuction like a military colony where resources could be dropped and could be garrisoned. This is also a great way of showcasing the Celtiberian architecture in a single structure in the game. 

@Genava55 @feneur @Itms @LordGood @stanislas69 @Alexandermb

 

 

I am not against this idea. Even with this, if we do a separate faction later for the Celtiberians and the others celtic and indo-european cultures of the peninsula having a celtiberian structure for the Iberian is not a problem. The Celtiberians could be the cement between two factions. You can check on the webpage of Numentia for a good overview of Celtiberian architecture (in the first page of this thread). 

By the way, the Celtiberians are not the only ones that could be included in the roster. Vascones and Aquitanians are good candidates as well and they share a similar language. For example the famous Solduros of the Sotiates (Gauls) are commonly accepted as being a Gallic tradition since there are roman accounts relating this word to the Gauls. But there are also good hints suggesting an aquitanian loanwords => Zordu- in Basque is pronounced Sordu- and Soldu- in other regional dialects and this word means "indebted". Or it could be Salduria from Saldi "the horse", meaning a horsemen class.

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3 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

No strong feelings for or against this idea. Waiting to see the art being done though.

Anyway, the architecture from the Celtiberian at Numentia is kinda similar to some finds in Aquitaine and Southern France. We can decide later the use.

 

@wackyserious Here a sketch of small Celtiberian hillfort

image.png.3b8b6dd6d4eed2e52ffada3d14e2dd64.png

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The Numentia reconstructions are the basis for much of the current Iberian faction's thatched buildings, It's nice that a new building would fit in, but what new elements would be added?

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14 minutes ago, LordGood said:

The Numentia reconstructions are the basis for much of the current Iberian faction's thatched buildings, It's nice that a new building would fit in, but what new elements would be added?

It is a good point. There is no historical problem with the architecture of thatched buildings since it could been used elsewhere by the Iberians. But it is true that for the Celtiberians from Numancia, the difference will be not significative in the architecture since it is already used by the Iberians in game. All this talk and successive proposals seems to emerge from an observation; the current state of the Iberian factions is based on a non-indo-european culture while the others indo-european cultures on the peninsula are not really included in the game while they are very significative in the history of Rome (Three Celtiberians Wars against Rome, two Lusitanians Wars against Rome and some rebellion during the Sertorian War). Somehow the few Celtiberian elements are used opportunistically for the Iberians like two of the current heroes are Celtiberian and Lusitanian and not Iberians. While the others elements from these cultures are not included at all.

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If it is more distinctive, a more circular structure for a Celtiberian hillfort with Las Eretas. A circular structure and enclose/enfold with a continuum of houses:

Spoiler

image.png.583753f4b0aa14ca83695d30fca9cfe9.png

5th century BC:

image.thumb.png.680c6c7eaeef568c8d2e3fefda7f81c2.png

2nd century BC:

image.png.5ec5e7c08deb7cf92981b4b3962c956b.png


 

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Iberian Elite Skirmisher

041019 - Iberians.jpg

@Genava55 Opinions on their equipment and the use of colors

Notice the green tunic and green pteruges for the player 1 (blue) and orange counterpart for player 2 (red)

  • This was an experiment, I increased the yellow color in the transparency to modify the colors it will produce. I am planning to use this technique in my future textures.

 

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3 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Iberian Elite Skirmisher

@Genava55 Opinions on their equipment and the use of colors

Notice the green tunic and green pteruges for the player 1 (blue) and orange counterpart for player 2 (red)

  • This was an experiment, I increased the yellow color in the transparency to modify the colors it will produce. I am planning to use this technique in my future textures.

 

0.A.D Forgotten Factions, i'm glad outdated unit textures are getting improvements :D.

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On 12/31/2018 at 7:54 AM, Genava55 said:

If it is more distinctive, a more circular structure for a Celtiberian hillfort with Las Eretas. A circular structure and enclose/enfold with a continuum of houses:

  Hide contents

image.png.583753f4b0aa14ca83695d30fca9cfe9.png

5th century BC:

image.thumb.png.680c6c7eaeef568c8d2e3fefda7f81c2.png

2nd century BC:

image.png.5ec5e7c08deb7cf92981b4b3962c956b.png


 

As an aside, I think it would be super sweet if Iberian houses would "snap" to walls when being placed and look like this. Standalone houses would look like they do now, but if you "snap" them to walls they'd line up into row houses. Ima dreamer.

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13 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Opinions on their equipment and the use of colors 

I think the cardiophylax is used before the chain mail become common in the peninsula (EDIT maybe contradicted by the finding below thus your choice is still possible):

https://journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/jahrb-rgzm/article/download/15319/9194/0

Although, I am not fluent in Spanish, thus I struggle to read it quickly. I see maybe a possible case, similar to some finds among the Gauls, with metallic plaques mixed with chain mail:

 

http://ceres.mcu.es/pages/Main?idt=84147&inventary=1952%2F10%2F579&table=FMUS&museum=MAN&fbclid=IwAR1q1ah0rVBqpm6rOpTAJk15_pv2JI-z3Z076wHAkflNlcmSwkifS37wnQ0

@soloooy0 @Trinketos @Gallaecio @Alexandermb is there someone speaking spanish that can also handle the reading of some academics material on the forum? @av93 maybe?

Sources in Spanish:

https://www.academia.edu/4182682/_En_los_orígenes_la_metalistería_prerromana_Sautuola_Revista_del_Instituto_de_Prehistoria_y_Arqueología_Sautuola_ISSN_1133-2166_No_13_2007_págs._59-78?fbclid=IwAR3DZX24buTObAFIs0v60kOEimMh3GkPTLmLt5AkIPECuBe8mbXTvhdwpHc

http://www.man.es/man/dms/man/estudio/publicaciones/boletin-man/MAN-Bol-1998/MAN-Bol-1998-Barril-Vicente.pdf

https://docplayer.es/50850604-La-panoplia-guerrera-de-la-necropolis-de-villanueva-de-teba-burgos.html

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/download/44/45

https://www.academia.edu/30577570/La_guerra_y_el_armamento_celtibérico_estado_actual

Edited by Genava55
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Quote

Bronze Chainmail /cota of the Celtiberian necropolis of Cerro Monóbar, Almaluez (Soria, Castilla y León, Spain), V BC.

Bronze pectoral/chainmail from the Celtiberian necropolis at Cerro Monóbar, Almaluez, Soria, Castile and León, Spain, 5th century BC

"(...) the pectorals of mail, rectangles of different size composed by small rings of bronze crimped. They can have hooks at the ends to be attached to a fabric, at different heights, and to protect. These pectorals are documented, for the moment, only in a few necropolis with an ancient Celtiberian phase, perhaps due to their structural weakness, such as Almaluez (Soria), Clares or Sigüenza (Guadalajara) (BARRIL, MANSO and SALVE, 1993).(...)": "In the origins: the pre-Roman metalwork", Magdalena Barril Vicente, National Archaeological Museum: http://w

Quote

National Archaeological Museum
Inventory 1952/10/579
Classification Generic Apparel; Metals
Object/Document Mesh
Components Fragment (28)
Material/Bronze Support
Dimensions Height = 18 cm; Length = 26 cm 
Ring 1: Width = 0.13 cm; Diameter = 0.45 cm 
Ring 2: Length = 0.37 cm; Width = 0.12 cm
Description Fragments of mesh made up of small interlaced rings. Each group consists of a central circular ring and four lateral oval rings joined together. It occupies an approximate surface of 375 square cms. It has four small plates at the ends, only one complete, which have on the external sides a thick perforation for hooks, and on the internal sides small perforations that conserve the remains of the rings of the mesh, we can perceive a line of embossed dots, parallel to the edges. A head hook coiled in a spiral that was attached to the plate is preserved, as well as a sharp and U-folded estremo on the opposite side and part of another hook.
Cultural Context/Celtiberian Culture Style
Place of Origin Necropolis of Cerro Monóbar, Almaluez (Campo de Gómara (region), Soria)
Specific Place/Yield Necropolis of Cerro Monóbar
The most complete plate has the hook stuck directly into the second hole, somewhat broken. After restoration in 2013 the hook is out. Photograph nº 3487 (a better state of conservation is appreciated than the current one).
Catalogue Protohistory and Colonizations

 

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
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