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gyrokanth

Flora / agriculture related ideas and requests

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*attached pdf has better table formatting*, same content

Intro:

A friend and I have been casually playing 0AD for a number of months and have been enchanted with the gameplay, graphics, and amazing sense of community and co-creation that has come together to create this project. In this spirit, we'd like to offer these suggestions of how the gameplay could be subtly improved in a few ways. In a nutshell they involve user/Gaia interactions, resource gathering, and civ-specific agro-economy models and techs.

  • simple modifications to user/Gaia interactions

  • simple modifications to agriculture structure and research names

  • call for diversification of Gaia plant and animal food sources

  • call for civ-specific diversification of agriculture structures and techs

IRL, our work in life is nature and ecology education and research at local public schools and universities, and non-profit management focused on public fruit and berry growing - so you can see the focus of our inputs ;). This is our first post on the forums, and we're hoping we landed in the right place. More connected members of the dev team are welcome to dissect this list if inspired and cross post where most applicable.

Rationale:

Any societies' agriculture, economy, and military were and are inseparable, past and present. . In a sense, armies were, and are extensions of a culture's farms, far removed. In addition to nutrition and calories and energy literally fueling societies during peace and war, farms furnished many, almost all, of the material goods used in the economy, with the exception of quarried rock and forest-cut wood. Materials like leather, insulation (wool, flax), cloth, dyes, fibers, solvents, adhesives, medicines, preservatives, small diameter wood, oils, paints, poisons, and more all are first grown on farms, and often processed nearby.

While 0AD largely focuses on military conquest, a little bit of tweaking, even just of the names of farming units and structures in the game, will go a long way to honor the importance of agriculture in all aspects of history, show the dynamic and unique nature of different societies' forms of farming, and possibly educate and inspire players. Without further ado, here are our suggestions.

 

1. Suggested increase of diversity of berry/nut bushes, fruit/nut trees:

In a game striving for historical accuracy, and with a fair diversity of tree models (and countless accurately rendered civ-specific warrior models) there should be more diversity and accuracy in the berry patches. With ancient Carthaginian names for fishing boats (which is awesome), merely one "Berry bush" feels out of place and too simple.

Easy and basic modifications of the existing berry bush model would suffice for most of these, or at minimum, just name changes of the same model, differentiated across for tile-sets. Biome: temperate (temp), northern (north), southern Europe (s.eur), south Asia (s.asia), arid (arid), Mediterranean (med). Appearance indicates how the berry bush model might be easily modified.

                   

Name                     Biome                                         Appearance

berry bush model mods:

bilberry                     temp, north blue,                    small berries (like a blueberry)

blackberry                     temp, s.eur, med                     shorter bush, silvery foliage, small black berries

aronia                     temp, north                                        darker green foliage, dark purple berries

elderberry                    temp, north                                         tall bush, light green foliage, clusters small black fruit

gooseberry                    temp, north, s.eur, med , arid                     red, small berries

black currants                    temp, north, s.eur                     black, small berries

sea berry                     med, arid, s.asia                                         orange, small berries, dark green/silver leaves

sloe plum                     north, temp                                         purple, small fruit, dark leaves

pomegranate                     arid, s. eur , s. asia,                     med tall berry bush, darker foliage, larger red fruits

hazelnut                    temp, north tall bush,                     darker foliage, brown nuts in light green husks

 

fruit trees that could use the apple tree model, modified:

rowan                    temp, north                                         apple tree with darker foliage, clusters of orange fruit

hawthorne                    temp, north                                         apple tree with darker foliage, dark red fruit

medlar                    s. eur, med                                         smaller apple tree with darker foliage, dark orange fruit

quince                    temp, s.eur, med                                        smaller apple tree with light foliage, yellow fruit

almond                    arid, s. euro, med, s. asia                     short tree, small green/yellow fruit with 1 brown stripe

apricot                     arid, s. euro, med, s. asia                     short tree, orange fruit (same model as above)

wild pear                     all but arid                    medium tree, dark green glossy leaves, orange grn fruit

cherry                    north, temp,  , s.euro                    medium tree, dark leaves, purple red small fruit

persimmon                    s. asia, med, s. euro                    med tall, thin tree, drk grn leaf, large orng. fruit, blk bark

mango                    South Asia                                        taller apple tree with glossy dark leaves, orange fruit

citrus (lemon?)                    s. asia, med, s.euro, arid                    apple tree with glossy dark leaves, orange/yellow fruit

mulberry                    all maps                                                             med size, wide tree with y/g leaves, y/br bark blk fruit

jujube                     S. asia, arid med tree                                        red small olive like fruit

pistachio                     S. asia, arid                                         med tree, beige small olive like fruit, tan bark

 

other models:

morel                    temp, s. europe                                        small patch of mushrooms (low, grey/brown)

chestnut                    temp, s. eur, north                     med tree, dark green leaves, bright gr husks, brown nuts

walnut                     temp, s. euro, central asia                    tall tree, green long leaves, bright gr husks

sugar apple                    S. asia                                         medium cone shaped tree, large leaves, large green fruit

tamarind                     S. asia, arid                                         tall tree (use tamarisk model), long dark beans.

 

2. Dry land, non-fruit, food gathering patches:

In addition to fruit, many wild tubers and greens played an enormous, supportive role in the peasant farm economy, on all continents, in all time periods from pre-history to the present day. From a caloric sense, wild starches were often gathered in excess of wild fruits, so we feel they should be represented.

 

Name Biome Appearance

wild yam                     South Asia                    pile of vines, glossy heart shaped dark leaves, ylw roots

burdock                     Temperate                    upright herb, broad dark leaves w silver underside

nettle                     all (non-arid)                     patch of upright, dark green thin herbs with little spikes

camas                     Temperate                    waist high grass looking patches w flowers, onion bulbs

orchid tuber                     Arid                     small, thick grass, small pink flowers

sea kale                     temperate, northern                    small cabbages, grows near shore, not in water

wild melon                    Africa, Arid, Med                    small pumpkin patch, orange

 

3. Wetland (shore and shallow water) food resources

Wetlands (freshwater), habitats are especially productive, and were long used as sources of starches and greens, at all times of year including the winter, when the ground was usually frozen elsewhere. All players of 0AD regardless of nationality are descended from peoples who made use of wetlands plants as food, even up through the late middle ages. These shore or shallow waters based Gaia/flora models could be "patch" sized food gathering resources for villagers, accessible from shore, as well as fishing boats (though their maximum water depth for growth should be about what people can walk in, maybe a little deeper.)

  • They could all have as much food as a berry bush for simplicity's sake, but having a choice and more meager option for each biome might be of interest and additional learning value.

  • The plant-based wetland foods and shellfish could use same animation as berry picking. Is there a fishing animation for civ. soldiers and women?

  • Maybe these foods could be deposited at a dock, for convenience?

 

Name Biome Appearance

cattails temp,                    north, south                     tall grass in water with wider leaves, cattail fruits

bullrush                    Temperate, arid                     tall grass in water with brown thin seeds at top

water lotus                    South Asia                    large round leaves, white lotus flowers on stalks

pond lily                     Temp, south, north                    floating round leaves, yellow floating lotus flowers

 

Shallow-water, shore based catchable freshwater fish:

catfish                     Temperate                     Larger (football) fish with whiskers, dark color

eels                    all                                         Longer, snake like fish, writing in rocks

salmon                     Northern                     jumping fish in small channels? appear cyclicly?

crawfish                     Southern, Asia                     Small, lobster like, with little mounds and holes

frogs                     Temperate, S Asia, S Euro                    lil' frogs, maybe a cattail or too and some eggs?

waterfowl                     All                                         ducks, geese, nests with eggs, ducklings

 

Saltwater*

mussel bed                     Temperate, northern                     dark blue, oval shells on rocks

clam bed                     South Asia, Med.                     white round shells on sand, holes, small circling gulls?

seaweed (laver)                    northern, temperate                     rocks under/above water leaves

seaweed (sea lettuce)                     temperate,                    south europe green

seabird colony                    All                     gulls, cormorants with nests, eggs

 

*not sure how to indicate salt vs. freshwater in the map generation... would have to maybe be assigned to land tile beneath it? I'd say randomly generated placement on procedural maps would be fine, users can place their own if they want on custom maps.

 

4. Proposed villager/fishing-boat built structure - fish trap - a la Age of Empires II:

Used historically, and almost universally. Maybe could be built by villagers on shoreline, (like dock), but might clutter villager build UI. Could also be built by a fishing boat. Costs some wood, yields food, takes 1-5 workers like a farm or bush. Maybe a dock research in phase 2/3? Capture-able? Useable by all boats (enemy or allied?)

See: http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Fish_Trap

 

5. Proposed food from existing tree models that presently only yield lumber:

IRL, these trees produce food and are (and were historically) as useful in orchards or wild sources of food as they were for lumber throughout history. Some are heavy producers, others have sparse harvests. Based on our understanding of production of these species, and measuring against the existing amounts of food offered by in game resources, we suggest the following food availability for these lumber trees. Additionally, some food producing trees should also yield a little wood when harvested out. However, there would need to be a seamless way for the player to decide (or not) which resource to harvest. Solutions include:

  • villager preset (has toggle, like military formations for preferences)

  • auto gather whichever you have less of (could be example of above preset)

  • get all the food fist, then the wood

  • get all the wood, then there is no food

  • when mousing over the trees, you can pick those options in little pop-up

  • villager gets both resources at the same time (but couldn't deliver food to the storehouse?)

  • general preset for all workers at the storehouse or farmstead

 

Tree list and proposed relative food amts:

    • acacia -little food (150F)

    • apple - little wood (or becomes an apple/lumber tree after food harvested)

    • baobab - food (400F)

    • carob - food (250F)

    • date palms - food and wood (400F)

    • beech - little nuts food (250F)

    • fig / little food and wood (500F, 150W)

    • oaks - food (research?) considerable, far more productive than farm fields (500-1kF)

    • pine - little food (150F)

    • toona - little food (150F)

 

5. General corrections and suggestions for Gaia units, names:

 

  • Lack of consistency in name selection for Gaia/flora. Propose the following format:

 

User region common name (Player-civ historical common name)

Latin name (Gaia)

 

Example (english language player playing as britons) (Spanish language player playing as britons)

Oak tree (coden derw) Roble (coden derw)

Quercus rubra (Gaia) Quercus rubra (Gea)

 

  • Tamarix is scientific (Latin) name, Tamarisk is English (Gaia/flora)

  • musk-oxen are a New World species, and in recent years have been introduced to Eurasia only in Scandinavia. Not sure if they feature in historic campaigns. If they're in a randomly generated terrain (northern) with ancient civs... not such a big deal IMO.

  • The following Gaia fauna (carnivores) should be available as a food resource. While not historically staples, they were certainly used in times of war or famine (such as the conditions of the entire game). Could get civ-specific for who could have broader diets, might be a fun small bonus for some civs (Mongols, later romans (feasts), Kushites, etc... but would be easier to implement edibility across the board and let players take the risk to fight them.)

    • Fox 20

    • Wolf 30

    • Croc 150 Historically eaten by ancient Egyptians (also revered).

    • Shark 200

    • Lion 150

    • Tiger 150

    • etc..

 

  • Gaia interactions: Simple AI with carnivores hunting herbivores. Should be rare and not cut into the resources but would be fun and immersive and compelling to witness. Herbivores breeding every so often... would have to have local population limits (like maybe the deer population raises by 10% a minute (doubling every ~10 min), reaches a cap of 30 (random idea, but not to high so doesn't lag or overrun the map). Or, easier, theres a random (low chance) that every few minutes a deer spawns near some a group of 2+ deer. Or something.

     

  • Suggested Gaia adds: (new fauna units)

    • geese and ducks (same model, geese paler and bigger). Food value ~ 50 lives on the shore.

    • caribou (new world) / reindeer (eurasia) - tamable, as deer/sheep

    • Crows (small black Gaia/fauna/hawk), come to dead hunted animals and war dead...? Peck around? Would be cool to see. Also vultures! Could just be part of the unit death / decay animation for simplicity... but might need to be randomly present, so they all don't show up at the same time and look like clones. Not sure how to do that.

       

  • Fun ideas: Wild asian elephant tamable by Mauryan, that become worker elephants

 

6. Potential lumber trees to add to the Gaia/flora palette, of historic and cultural significance:

These trees are currently missing from the palette, and would need new/tweaked models.

  • Temperate climate: maple, ash, willow, birch, alder

  • Mediterranean: cedar of Lebanon, myrrh, hackberry (Lotus tree of the Iliad)

  • Arid: mahogany, dragon blood tree (dracaena cinnabari), tamarind, ghaf tree, wild olive, myrrh

  • South Asia: banyan, bamboo, jujube, mango, she-oak, neem, sacred fig

     

7. Civ specific ecological/other structures/upgrades:

These played significant roles in these societies. These would take much more modeling and game balancing, but we thought we'd suggest for fun.

 

  • Britons, Gauls (others?) - a druid (or maybe takes a few at once) can plant a sacred grove (Oaks used historically for this) (X wood, stone?). Starts an oak tree -- might need a building / growing animation. Maybe has to be built ON existing trees? Has aura of effect healing speed increase? maybe vastly increases the healer's POV vision while they're standing next to it? Maybe generates deer slowly? If you sacrifice sheep there.... *insert fun effect* insta-heals 500hp (or whatever feels balanced) within the small radius, to the lowest HP units first?

 

  • Coracle - Briton specific small, circular, portable, wheelbarrow sized boat. Developed interdependently by the Indians/Mauryans as well, today called haragōlu (Crab boat)). Built WITHOUT a dock, by citizens and citizen soldiers. Research at dock. Was used at the time of Cesar in Wales and the UK/Ireland. He noted them, and used them in his own Campaign in Ireland (so maybe some Roman soldiers could get them later, likewise with an upgrade (maybe at the military outpost, not dock), could not find a specific Roman military name for them, Latin for coracle is coracle). Builds fast (10-25 sec), costs 20-50, can be fished from or transport, and can be carried? Moves slowly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coracle

     

  • Qanat Used historically and I believe presently in Iran. For Selucids, maybe Ptolemies? Place near farms, akin to rotary mill, maybe worker has to build a water entrance at nearby highlands just for fun, or user clicks to identify or... just forget about that. these are basically highly efficient underground aqueducts for irrigation, still in use in Iran. Could be a research at storehouse, or farm field if not a full structure, but their architecture was beautiful, above and below ground.

     

  • Cob structures/houses - Britons, Gauls, probably lots. Town phase research (at houses?). decrease house and economic structures cost by 1 or speed (maybe if worked on in groups)

     

  • I don't know enough about the rest of the civs to propose others.

 

8. Suggested mechanic for wild (plant) food harvesting, fish:

The following could be a research, below, at the farmhouse, rather than a engine-wide mechanic. I think that would be easier. The in-game agro-economy offers, and reinforces, player concepts of how humans interact with the ecosystem. All too often in resource based RTS games, this is a consume-and-move-on paradigm. While this encourages expansion for in game conquest, it's not totally historically accurate, and paints a too-simple picture of human/ecology relationships.

The fact is, that picking berries does not destroy a bush. People know that 200,000 years ago, and people know that today. In fact, people historically often chose to relate to berry patches in ways that PROMOTED the regrowth of the food plants. Some mechanic options are:

 

  • Easy mechanic: Berry bushes, trees, fish slowly regenerate food (full bush takes ~5 minutes? long enough to encourage expansion as usual, but fast enough to eventually come back to.). If the available food reaches 0, the bushes die, representing unsustainable and irresponsible harvest. If you stop while they have some amount of food, they will survive and keep regenerating until full and you return to keep harvesting.

  • Research option: Storehouse had a research (town phase?), wildcrafting that would automatically de-allocate foraging villagers when the patch was low: applies to bushes, shellfish, maybe not fish patches without an additional research. These would then have to be allowed to slowly grow back.

  • Alternatively, berry bushes would NOT regenerate UNTIL you had researched wildcrafting.

  • Wildcrafting could also allow women to plant berry bushes, fruit trees (random palette selection) anywhere, (within radius of existing berry bushes), for x wood /ea?

 

9. Storehouse technologies:

  • Billhooks - basically hooked axes/knives for harvesting small wood. Used in self defense by peasants, and as weapons when levied into war. Developed on a long handle to "prune" limbs, and became the halberd. Maybe villagers that are harvesting wood get +X attack? Or all villagers do, for simplicity? Plus, they look awesome!

 

Propose these upgrades get renamed for more historic detail and accuracy:

  • Stronger Axe -> Hewing Axes (more specific) (or billhooks, above)

  • Sharp Axe Heads -> Grinding Wheel (even iron axes were sharp).

  • Baskets -> Pack Baskets (presently redundant with wicker baskets, and baskets have been around (pre scope of this game), for many 1000s of years, so "researching" them around 0ad seems strange.

 

Coppice forestry (costs TBD) (research in phase 1 or 2)

Coppice is a universally practiced, historic and present human wood gathering technology in which trees are cut in cycles, and each tree has a change to regrow over decades (or lower time frames) from multiple stumps. While some empires blatantly deforested the land, many gathered wood in a somewhat sustainable manner. While the need for active expansion in 0AD driven by wood depletion is part of the gameplay, coppicing was very fundamental to past (and present) local economies of any scale (village - empire), and I think should be represented in this game - not just for historical accuracy, but to offer a teaching tool to players, and to introduce players to this concept which has modern day implications. Here are some suggestions about how it might work.

 

  • If a worker(s) is gathering wood, and the tree HP (wood qty) is hits 20, the workers are auto- reallocated to nearby trees. The tree dies, spawns a species specific (or even generic) coppice stump in its place. This stump starts with 20 wood, which could be harvested in an emergency, but regrow wood/HP to it's maximum (let's say 200) over 5 minutes, with the same feature - when it gets to 20 (or 0), the workers reallocate to nearby trees - either whole trees or coppice trees over ~50 or 100 HP, giving them some time to recharge.

    • There would be a need for an associated build animation for the coppice tree - growing as a stump with sprouts that finally become multiple, vertical thinner trunks. For the sake of easiness, maybe all trees re spawn as the coppice tree (same model), despite their original species. However, not all trees can be coppiced - evergreens cannot. Unlocks woodlot management (below).

  • Or, more simply, below:

 

Woodlot management - available in the city phase. Lets civilians build a woodlot (or copse) (structure akin to a farm field, looks like lotsa stumps that grow to trees), about 5 coppice trees close together in a clump. The research costs wood, food, metal, the woodlots themselves cost wood and metal, stone, whatever. This could have to be built OVER (or UNDER?) existing trees, stumps, or just fields., but would be gather able, as is food, in a sustainable, somewhat endless way like a farm field. The # of workers per woodlot could be tweaked, or their rate of gathering. Maybe then you have to harvest the original trees, then you get the woodlot. Maybe the woodlots have infinite wood, maybe they have 1000, 2000, etc. or maybe you'd need to let them rest somehow.

 

10. Farm field renames:

Not all these factions consumed the same staples. While "Field" is generic, having the species (here simplified - many cultures consumed many grains, vegetables, etc), listed int he name increases the learning and immersion for the player. Tinting the color of the field to various browns would also be a nice touch.

 

  • Civ Field Civ name

    • Athenians                    Barley field

    • Britons                     Spelt field

    • Carthaginians                     Wheat field

    • Gauls                     Spelt field

    • Iberians                     Wheat field

    • Macedonians                     Wheat field

    • Mauryans                     Rice field

    • Persians                     Barley field

    • Ptolemies                     Barley field

    • Kushites                     Millet field

    • Romans                     Wheat field

    • Seleucids                     Wheat field

 

11. Farmstead Technologies (researchable):

 

  • Nut processing (nuts) - lets you get food from (oak, beech, chestnut, almond, (italic not in game atm). Simple solution is that it turns the above models into food versions (replacing lumber versions) for the researched player. Simpler still is that all civilizations have this ability to begin with, it's not an upgrade, but these tree models produce food and players have the choice. More complex is that player has a choice of resource. If choosing food/wood (in the GUI) feels to much work and might slow gameplay a little, maybe the default could be getting wood, and a hovered mouse over over the trees will pop up a food option.

  • Wildcrafting (lets women replant berry patches, or not exhaust them when they get to zero food but they (very?) slowly come back?)

  • Herbalism - slightly increase women hit points (5-10?), walking speed, and add healing radius (slow hp/s for around women and certain units - like maybe villagers and citizens soldiers? maybe if near a house too?). Or maybe is like battlefield medicine, but ALL units regenerate a little bit more?

Hedgerow - played a critical role in the home economy of peasant farmers across history. Basically quasi-wild but cultivated strips of bushes and trees between farm plots, full of bushes with food, medicine, nutrition, fiber, useful fuel and more. Suggested here as a farmhouse, phase 2 upgrade available to all non-arid civs, that unlocks a build able structure, the hedgerow.

  • built by citizens like a palisade, 4 or 5 units long. passable, but briefly slow movement through them for foot units, slow cavalry less, can't stop siege. can be destroyed., lower HP than palisades. however, can gather some amount of food off of them. can only be built along the edge of a farm.

  • Or built on farms/adjacent to farms, (add ons), like the nuke silo to the Terran CC in StarCraft. Not sure if the farm or villager would do the building. Maybe, more simply, any farm could research "Add hedgerow", (the way that towers can upgrade to defense towers), and it would allow another 1-2 workers to farm there, and change the model to have a few bushes along the edge (or not). This way it doesn't deal with it as a defensive structure.

12. Propose these upgrades get renamed for more historic detail, accuracy, and intrigue to player.

  • Gather training -> Cover Crops or Crop Rotation (civ specific), propose icon is a seedling plant (could be same across the board), and have the name format: Cover Crops (Barley) or Crop Rotation (Barley). Alternatively: [civ historical name] ([Player language] cover crops), i.e. Shaftal (Barley Cover Crops). It may be easier NOT to include civ names for this for simplicity.

     

    Civ                                         Cover Crop                                        Historic name (incomplete list)

    • Athenians                    Lentils

    • Britons                     Winter rye

    • Carthaginians                     Cowpea

    • Gauls                     Winter wheat

    • Iberians                    Barley

    • Macedonians                    Spring oats

    • Mauryans                     Mustard

    • Persians                     Clover                                                             shaftal

    • Ptolemies                     Lentils

    • Kushites                     Sorghum

    • Romans                     Chickpeas                                                             cicer

    • Seleucids                     Sesamea

 

Civ specific researches (names) for last tier (3) farming speed upgrade

 

  • Fertilizer - > Rename to civ-specific final tier farming tech. Below are a more complete list of civ-specific, geographically unique and HIGHLY sophisticated agricultural technologies of antiquity (often still used to this day).

  • This could change the name of all their fields to this specific type.

  • Different models would be amazing, but recognized as being a design challenge.

  • The upgrade could (easily) just be the additional % increase to food, but some careful scholarly research might uncover some interesting ways in which these profited the militaries (or economies) of the playable societies. This could give late game, economy specific, agriculture activated society wide upgrades, which would be very interesting to see.

  • Alternatively, each civ could have a (different modeled) civ specific agriculture aura-enhancement building, like rotary mill, that can upgrade farms in the vicinity (or map-wide)

 

Civ                                                            tech (english)                    Civ specific name

Athenians                                        olive press

Britons                                         chalk fertilizer

Carthaginians                                         Seasonal herding

Gauls Sprouted                                        einkorn

Iberians                                         Pig-oak silvipasture                                        Dehesa

Macedonians                                        vineyards

Mauryans                                         Fair farming administration                    Kumara

Persians                                        Qanat irrigation

Ptolemies                                        Cotton cultivation

Kushites                                         Tilapia Aquaculture

Romans (Republican)                    Master beekeeping

Seleucids                                        Long distance herding

 

If all this sounds too much, Fertilizer could become Fertilizer (X) or X Fertilizer, as below, using a regionally specific source of the resource. That option is listed below, is recognizable across playable civs, and honors the differences between these societies modes of farming.

 

Athenians                    Fertilizer (Charcoal)

Britons                     Fertilizer (Chalk)

Carthaginians                     Fertilizer (Reed mulch)

Gauls                     Fertilizer (Oat straw)

Iberians                    Fertilizer (Pig manure)

Macedonians                    Fertilizer (Leaf mulch)

Mauryans                     Fertilizer (Cow manure)

Persians                     Fertilizer (Wheat chaff)

Ptolemies                     Fertilizer (Cow manure)

Kushites                     Fertilizer (Reed mulch)

Romans                     Fertilizer (Cow manure)

Seleucids                     Fertilizer (Barley chaff)

 

13. Corral - tech and trainable livestock:

  • Poultry: geese, peahens, guinea fowl, ducks, chickens, made in batches of 5? (Maybe just "poultry", and it's civ specific: Geese for northern/central europe, ducks for western europe, chickens for mediterranean, guinea fowl kushites, pea hens /cocks for western/south Asian factions and high Romans. Or random. Maybe 1-20 poultry can be garrisoned IN the corral, which women can get eggs from (maybe 5? less? people can gather at a time, rate of replenishment or amt of women able to gather depends on amount of garrisoned poultry, each of which cost food one time). Would be similar production to a farm, but less space, and could cost more food than farm wood to earn for that benefit.

  • Cattle: cows, water buffalo, zebu

  • Horses: eaten by some cultures, include donkeys

  • A quick survey of the in-team historians should yield which civs get which livestock. Maybe they all just get one? Or maybe in city phase, the price drops on cows, etc, and they have a better pay-off? Or maybe animal food cost drops by 1 for each farm field you have?

  • Pigs: Iberians, Romans

  • Carthage, Selucids, Persians, Ptolemies: Camels, goats

 

Corral features

  • auto-train (on loop) single/batch livestock to workers nearby harvesting meat. Maybe stops the auto-cue when food is low and during alerts? Maybe made when workers are harvesting it but it's the last one dies? (This can be toggled on/off)

  • livestock reproduce over time (if 5? or more, and are idle long enough)

  • sheep can be tamed by women, as in, can follow them back to the farmstead for easy meat shuttling a la Age of Kings.

  • Sheep, goats, cows, camels, can be milked (one woman per cow/sheep). Does not kill it but allows for continuous, albeit slower production. research "dairy / stanchions / milking stool" or something like that at the corral. This option (cursor / mouse over) would have to be elected by the villager when selecting the sheep.

 

14. Possible Kennel researches for increased dog utility

  • herding - allows dogs to go roaming for meat to chase (have livestock or game follow the dog) back to the kennel, or dog brings it back to a corral or farmstead.

  • retrieving - dog explores map, looking for poultry, kills, brings back.

  • hunting dogs - follow horsemen to hunt, increase qty of meat yielded from the carcass, or makes deer or geese, etc, spawn randomly at times near the hunters ("flushed" out of the bush)

  • morale - units with dogs have "morale" higher --- faster healing rate?

 

15. Artistic suggestions for some Gaia units / icons:

  • Mushrooms - should be bigger, or have shadows around them to stand out in landscape.

  • Larger oaks, pines. Should not be same size as palm, but twice as big.

  • Toona tree needs more red leaves, for tropical (S. Asian biome only).

  • Rhino has bear for icon pic, has badger head.

  • species specific fish icons missing

 

16. General game / scenario editor suggestions:

  • Have a tool in Scenario Editor that can paint flora (or units, for that matter) with a wider brush, and can be held down (spray paint style)

  • Have "select unit" feature in Scenario Editor, to indicate name and maybe starting parameters for that model (or all copies of it)

  • Have visible "elapsed time" counter in game replay mode (and possibly in active game modes)

  • Have a test / launch map feature directly from Scenario Editor

  • Flaming fauna animations (after burning pig contact) need some work, maybe not realistic that units catch fire and DoT from the pigs.

    possible able to have them rendered, could try to mod them as units but not my forte. would be fun, but... anyone interested in tagging in?

  • Middens, like the treasure chests, and random item drops (trash mounds from prior cultures - stone, metal?), were historically used.

  • camera angle changeable (if desired) from 45deg down to adjustable, including 90deg (towards horizon), or less, so that the ground isn't dis-oreientingly lost. Maybe also able to look straight down if desired.

 

 

 

0ad eco ideas.pdf

Edited by gyrokanth
wanted to explain attachment
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I thought this was a bit too in-depth at first glance, but you do make a good point, the maps will come much more alive if they have a greater relationship with the player economy (and military)

It will make land grabbing feel more substantial than just securing a few resources and territory for forward bases.

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Thanks for the feedback, and we'd be curious to hear more. Neither of us can program really, and can't offer anything beyond encouragement, but we might be able to wrangle some local college students i work with to play with the berry bush/tree cgi models and produce a bunch of spin-off models. I would need some guidance on what file format to solicit them to create them in, how they should be packaged, and more -- and would need others to integrate them into other aspects of the game:

map editor, random map generation, etc.

Actually, it might be possible to use one model (the berry bush) use multiple skins (and names) in game to produce similar variants of the model(s) in a more efficient file size. Not sure if that's possible, but if there is an efficient way to do it or have it done, lmk.

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While I think this is too in-depth for it all to be done for the game, there are a lot of things there that can be done and should be done. I like these kinds of thought-out in-depth proposals though, especially from someone with some real knowledge to share.

15 hours ago, gyrokanth said:

1. Suggested increase of diversity of berry/nut bushes, fruit/nut trees:

 

I think berry bushes are a standard model as to be easily identifiable from other (wood or cosmetic) bushes. Perhaps pare the berry bush proposal down to one type of berry bush per biome? Or perhaps just 3 types that can be used biome-specifically, so they can be visually learned quickly. They should be modeled to be somewhat similar in shape. 

 

15 hours ago, gyrokanth said:

Civ Field Civ name

  • Athenians                    Barley field

  • Britons                     Spelt field

  • Carthaginians                     Wheat field

  • Gauls                     Spelt field

  • Iberians                     Wheat field

  • Macedonians                     Wheat field

  • Mauryans                     Rice field

  • Persians                     Barley field

  • Ptolemies                     Barley field

  • Kushites                     Millet field

  • Romans                     Wheat field

  • Seleucids                     Wheat field

 It would be neat to actually have these slightly different fields for each civ. We have wheat and barley textures. Now we need millet and spelt.

 

Your ideas for techs and tech names are pretty good. I too have been annoyed by the oddly generic techs in the game. You're also right that the game needs more/better tree models and species.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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15 hours ago, gyrokanth said:
  • auto-train (on loop) single/batch livestock to workers nearby harvesting meat. Maybe stops the auto-cue when food is low and during alerts? Maybe made when workers are harvesting it but it's the last one dies? (This can be toggled on/off)

I had the idea for "Chicken Coop" tech at the corral that auto-spawned free chickens, X number maximum alive at a time.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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6 hours ago, gyrokanth said:

Thanks for the feedback, and we'd be curious to hear more. Neither of us can program really, and can't offer anything beyond encouragement, but we might be able to wrangle some local college students i work with to play with the berry bush/tree cgi models and produce a bunch of spin-off models. I would need some guidance on what file format to solicit them to create them in, how they should be packaged, and more -- and would need others to integrate them into other aspects of the game:

map editor, random map generation, etc.

Actually, it might be possible to use one model (the berry bush) use multiple skins (and names) in game to produce similar variants of the model(s) in a more efficient file size. Not sure if that's possible, but if there is an efficient way to do it or have it done, lmk.

Let me know if said students do anything or if they need any help. Remember a few consideration though. Can't be done on the students version of 3Dsmax else their models belong to Autodesk and we can't use them. Blender would be nice. Or anything that uses Collada (DAE) without dumb restrictions. Textures should be power of two Pngs use the in-game files for reference. They'll have to get the source or look for files there 

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/art/textures/skins

Or on GitHub.

They'll have to sign the legal waiver here. 

As much as possible it'd be nice to have source files ( blend, psd, xcf) Also they can't use proprietary textures only CC bY SA or CcO or public domain. Wikipedia is a good source for those. If they use ccbysa I'll need the name of the person who made the photograph or texture. (We have to give credit)

If they haven't ran off after that it'll be okay ;)

Sorry I couldn't answer your first post but it's a pain to quote on a phone.

One thing troubles me can you take a screenshot of the rhino using the bear texture ?

 

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2 minutes ago, Stan` said:

What part of 'this' ?

Quote
  • Athenians                    Barley field

  • Britons                     Spelt field

  • Carthaginians                     Wheat field

  • Gauls                     Spelt field

  • Iberians                     Wheat field

  • Macedonians                     Wheat field

  • Mauryans                     Rice field

  • Persians                     Barley field

  • Ptolemies                     Barley field

  • Kushites                     Millet field

  • Romans                     Wheat field

  • Seleucids                     Wheat field

These models can be useful for mods or for new gameplay.

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
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What about some mushrooms in the forest? Or maybe birds? Slow food quantity restoration at berry bushes if they not gathered at all? Also you can use Cossacks model of fields when it dwindle by parts.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Narxes

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