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Skirmish map - Egypt (previously "Egypt condensed")


mimesot
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On 2/13/2018 at 10:39 AM, niektb said:

I can review the map design but I can't really comment on playability as I don't really have the time to playtest it extensively. I never committed anything since we switched to Phabricator, I think it's better if someone else does the actual commit (my SVN is also around Alpha 21 I think) :) 

Playtest not really needed, just start it and see if it gives a bluescreen of death or something like that. The map design is the decisive part.

This skirmish map doesn't have to go through Phabricator, the latter can't test anything with it.

Also committing works just as before, just that we add "Differential Revision: <url>" in case there was a phabricator page to the commit message.

What is important is that the map is balanced between the opposing parties. On the screenshot I see some players with prebuilt cities and walls and one player with only a civic center. That is okay however if it's supposed to be a 2v2 and both teams have a player with an advantage and one without. Same for the resources, teams should have roughly the same access to resources.

Also new maps get the keyword "new", so that they are listed under the "new maps" mapfilter. Don't forget the art.json entry in case.

Commit this map for us, plieeeeeeeees :wavey:

Also does @mimesot know that we have the Kushite civilization now that also come with new pyramids? Not sure if it's exactly their territory however.

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Well, Kushites were active as far as Thebes during our timeframe, and were quite influential politically and religiously in the Thebaid region in general. They even built temples and monuments in Southern Egypt, like the original temple of Debod in Philae (currently in Madrid, Spain) built by Adikhalamani and the original temple of Dakka built by Arqamani. These were built in periods of Kushite supported revolts against Ptolemaic rule in Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia, against Ptolemy IV and Ptolemy V. Even the massive Kiosk of Taharqa, in the first courtyard of the temple of Amun in Karnak (Thebes) was built by... Taharqa, in addition to other monuments like the Edifice of Taharqa by the Sacred Lake in the precinct of Mut, in Karnak. 

Admittedly, the Kushite heartlands were significantly more South than this map. It's an amazing map though, can't wait to play it :) 

Spoiler

The traditional areas of Kushite control, although during 0AD's timeframe this control sometimes extended as far as Thebes:

kush-map.thumb.png.fdc462a60ad875c0c0dbbe2b6699a93a.png

 

Kiosk of Taharqa in Karnak, Thebes, in front the second Pylon:

karnak_cortile.thumb.jpg.aeeb929271f83b76d654ae2e60ed78d5.jpg

 

The last remaining "pillar of Taharqa" today:

fb99982da9917a9b163d482c3e12c984--kiosk-the-temple.jpg.5be4f0f9c72e482ad0ab28cba02df9e9.jpg

 

Temple of Debod, with Ptolemaic and Roman additions:

Templo_de_Debod_in_Madrid.thumb.jpg.83a906b2b27ad289b8c0c13ea24f737a.jpg

 

Temple of Dakka, with Roman and Ptolemaic additions

136755.thumb.jpg.e5841861e9698e27379ec6da61d1ae33.jpg

 

 

Edited by Sundiata
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Hi!

17 hours ago, elexis said:

This skirmish map doesn't have to go through Phabricator, the latter can't test anything with it.

Is that something you would consider for future versions?

17 hours ago, elexis said:

What is important is that the map is balanced between the opposing parties. On the screenshot I see some players with prebuilt cities and walls and one player with only a civic center. That is okay however if it's supposed to be a 2v2 and both teams have a player with an advantage and one without. Same for the resources, teams should have roughly the same access to resources.

The advantages of having theaters, wonders, additional civil centers, libraries, fortresses,etc. is tremendous. I will hopefully have more balanced version available on Monday morning. Currntly, in a 2 vs 2 between Upper+Lower Egypt vs Sinai+Siwa, Siwa has the hardest start. For reasons unknown to me Alexandria directly expands to Giza while Thebes and Sinai just play agressively but don't expand early. Siwa does expand but gets crushed first often, so i intend to give them either additional supplies or another civil center. I will report asap. Tomorrow morning I will host a LAN-party at my home, which will yield further inside.

5 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Well, Kushites were active as far as Thebes during our timeframe, and were quite influential politically and religiously in the Thebaid region in general. They even built temples and monuments in Southern Egypt, like the original temple of Debod in Philae (currently in Madrid, Spain) built by Adikhalamani and the original temple of Dakka built by Arqamani. These were built in periods of Kushite supported revolts against Ptolemaic rule in Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia, against Ptolemy IV and Ptolemy V. Even the massive Kiosk of Taharqa, in the first courtyard of the temple of Amun in Karnak (Thebes) was built by... Taharqa, in addition to other monuments like the Edifice of Taharqa by the Sacred Lake in the precinct of Mut, in Karnak.

This s very interesting information.  I would love to implement that! But the Kushites are not planned for this release, are they?

Greetings
mimesot

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11 hours ago, niektb said:

removed SVN

:(

11 hours ago, mimesot said:

Is that something you would consider for future versions?

You can upload it on Phabricator already.

11 hours ago, mimesot said:

I would love to implement that!

You can certainly place the buildings and units on your map.

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Hi!

First off, I posted an uodate to the map. Again mostly minor fixes.

20 hours ago, elexis said:

You can upload it on Phabricator already.

You can certainly place the buildings and units on your map.

(Phabricator) Can I just join in there? I have never worked with that platform. Do you have some kind of tutorial for me?

(Kushite buildings) Are they part of the current developement version, which is actually accessible by regular users?

Greetings
mimesot

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5 hours ago, mimesot said:

Hi!

First off, I posted an uodate to the map. Again mostly minor fixes.

(Phabricator) Can I just join in there? I have never worked with that platform. Do you have some kind of tutorial for me?

(Kushite buildings) Are they part of the current developement version, which is actually accessible by regular users?

Greetings
mimesot

Use svn public version.

 

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http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/SubmittingPatches

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Phabricator

TLDR: Register, click on create differential revision somewhere.

To get the new models, just checkout the most recent code on svn.

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/BuildInstructions or the link Lion.Kanzen gave you.

(As long as you don't change c++ code, you don't need visual studio)

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36 minutes ago, elexis said:

I will ask the rest of the team if we can commit this map after feature freeze too. Shouldn't be a problem in theory as it can't cause any bugs and shouldn't take long to review.

We should check for actors just in case. But yeah it should be fine :)

 

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On 19.2.2018 at 4:21 PM, elexis said:

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/SubmittingPatches

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Phabricator

TLDR: Register, click on create differential revision somewhere.

To get the new models, just checkout the most recent code on svn.

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/BuildInstructions or the link Lion.Kanzen gave you.

(As long as you don't change c++ code, you don't need visual studio)

Thanks a lot!

I installed SVN and had a thorough look at the new content. I'm really looking forward to play with this new content. Transforming the city of Thebae into a Kush settlement and including  pyramids from Meroe is an exciting prospect.

But this is probably no task I will be able to fulfill within this week. I am sorry. The Kush design features much less saturated colours, which exchanges the vivid athmosphere of the ptoleleian buildings with one that fits the ambiance of the harsh dry desert much better. But the yard in the Thebae temples with the water basin and the botanic garden does not blend with the dark grey foundations of the Kush castle and walls too well. Thus I will definitly move this building complex to Memphis, where I will stick with the ptolemeian design. (The current central complex of Memphis isn't my favourite anyway).

Have any Kush pyramids ever been found in the vicinity of Thebae? I would use them in the very south of the river Nile, perhaps creating a little sandy plateau for that purpose. Perhaps I should also replace the current southernmost pyramid with Kush pyramids, but that would still be quite far in the north. What do our experts say?

Finally, I can see that the ptolemeian, seleucidian and greek range of buildings expanded, so I should probably try to free some space in the existing cities. Did I mention that even the map size "giant" is still a little constricting ;-)

Greetings
mimesot

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, mimesot said:

Have any Kush pyramids ever been found in the vicinity of Thebae? I would use them in the very south of the river Nile, perhaps creating a little sandy plateau for that purpose. Perhaps I should also replace the current southernmost pyramid with Kush pyramids, but that would still be quite far in the north. What do our experts say?

Actually... Something not often mentioned, by anybody, is that New Kingdom Egyptian nobles built small steep sided pyramids, as royals started using rock cut tombs in the Valley of the Kings. These were in all probability the inspiration for the later Kushite pyramids (as opposed to the much larger ones from Gizeh). Deir el-Medina, the home of the workers and artisans that worked in the Valley of the Kings, is the most famous site.

Spoiler

Deir el Medina with small pyramid tombs in the background

gfhfghgfhg.thumb.jpg.825e7549903f9d6461e39a29bc92daf6.jpg

sennedjem-pyramid-tomb1.jpg.32c5904b81dac2738de6e977c0eba01b.jpg

6880.jpg.e9e9c0b55b6ecc25946bf161147f3959.jpg

Pyr_shi02.thumb.jpg.b121176be47365883a747b710e7a9e48.jpg

 

3 hours ago, mimesot said:

Transforming the city of Thebae into a Kush settlement and including  pyramids from Meroe is an exciting prospect.

No need to wholly "transform" it in into a Kush settlement, although adding some Kushite models will add some authenticity.

I found that Kushite houses mixed in with Carthaginian houses provide the most authentically Egyptian looking feel for any Nile Valley settlement (Carthaginian houses look a lot more Egyptian than the Ptolemaic Egyptian houses...):

Spoiler

5a8e3aa95a10a_kushuppermiddleclass2.thumb.jpg.fdd936c6d3e085d8de451aed4430bc33.jpg

5a8e3aa427f58_Kushuppermiddleclass1.thumb.jpg.e0c258c4c4f95ce83b4c8632d42c2f44.jpg

 

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12 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Deir el-Medina, the home of the workers and artisans that worked in the Valley of the Kings, is the most famous site.

No need to wholly "transform" it in into a Kush settlement, although adding some Kushite models will add some authenticity.

I found that Kushite houses mixed in with Carthaginian houses provide the most authentically Egyptian looking feel for any Nile Valley settlement.

And Deir el-Medina is located directly on the other riverside across from Luxor. I will try to squeeze some in there. It is a pity that you can't expand a map afterwards :-D

I looked into the Kush-Ptolemeian mix and it looks kind of odd. The design of Kush buildings stands out with cylindrical or dome-like roofs and dark gray foundations, which clashes with the consitently flat roofs and saturated orange-ochre of the ptolemaic obes. So I will probably stick to the Kush buildings. Regarding Carthage buildings, I do agree. The white buildings definitvely don't clash so hard with these almost pink buildings (I personally think the saturation of the barracks etc. should be reduced and adapted to the color of the temples. I guess they will recieve a bump map as well, otherwise it looks a little like plasic) as the orangy ptolemaic do. One problem is, that mixing Kush and Carthage buildings looks good at the scale of your examples. If I had that much space it would work out for my settlement as well, but due to space limitations, I will probably better strick to Kush. Nevertheless I will give it a try.

 

Well, first of all I will deal with the errors.

22 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

We should check for actors just in case.

And of course, when a such a case might probably occur, it almost certainly does :-P

5a8eec3dbead6_errorsbeforeconversion.png.56b206abd8ebb92e37047706cb4602f2.png

Interestingly my classical pyramids are gone too, but that didn't throw an error or an exception. Why's that?

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