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SGK7019

Why so many Alpha stages?

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42 minutes ago, Zeta1127 said:

which would probably lead to the inclusion of the Thebans.

Thebans, Spartans, and Athenians are nice, but Syracuse was arguably the largest, most powerful, and influential of all Greek city states - despite being located on Sicily. They were the arch-enemies of Carthage for centuries (Rome was a late-comer, starting out as a minor Carthaginian ally), invented the quinquereme (penteres), and had Archimedes.

40 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Personally I want Numidians and Pontus, Yugurta and Mithridates, classic enemies of Rome.

Yes, Numidia, Pontus, Parthia, and Armenia are really needed to cover the 200-1 B.C. timeframe.

However, work on those has not yet started, whereas the Han, Kushites, and Xiongnu are partially done, and would also be nice to have in the main distribution.

Edited by Nescio
Syracusae!
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I just said the Thebans, because I really want them, since they are the biggest hole in being able to do the Peloponnesian War, and to a lesser extent the Greek-Persian Wars, properly. Syracuse is definitely on the short list, along with Numidia, Pontus, and Parthia, for other civilizations to include in Empires Ascendant.

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2 hours ago, Zeta1127 said:

I just said the Thebans, because I really want them, since they are the biggest hole in being able to do the Peloponnesian War, and to a lesser extent the Greek-Persian Wars, properly. Syracuse is definitely on the short list, along with Numidia, Pontus, and Parthia, for other civilizations to include in Empires Ascendant.

Parthians must be second part I think. with Sasanids and may be Palmyra

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Before you guys fully hijack the topic:

There was a time when I get a little bit irritated when people mock 0 A.D. as a "Forever Alpha" game. But given the trend that Rome 2 Total War started, no-one should mock the game for being an Honest Alpha.

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51 minutes ago, sphyrth said:

Before you guys fully hijack the topic:

There was a time when I get a little bit irritated when people mock 0 A.D. as a "Forever Alpha" game. But given the trend that Rome 2 Total War started, no-one should mock the game for being an Honest Alpha.

Becomes as service an RTS forever.

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2 hours ago, sphyrth said:

There was a time when I get a little bit irritated when people mock 0 A.D. as a "Forever Alpha" game. But given the trend that Rome 2 Total War started, no-one should mock the game for being an Honest Alpha.

I am still angry about Rome 2 TW. Still. We waited 10 years for a great sequel to Rome1. The mods for Rome 1 showed just how incredible a sequel could be if Creative Assembly just opened their eyes. The @#$%ed up combat mechanics of Rome 2, the insane amount of glitches, the insanely misleading pre-release footage and screenshots, a release that was clearly 6 months too early. argh

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12 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

Technically Gamma is final product :) it it wouldn't change much to use Greek letters :P

Not Omega? Or would that be the final patch, definitive edition of 0 A.D., out 4th quarter 2032 for all VR platforms.

 

7 hours ago, Zeta1127 said:

which would probably lead to the inclusion of the Thebans

See: Delenda Est. ;)

 

6 hours ago, Nescio said:

Thebans, Spartans, and Athenians are nice, but Syracuse was arguably the largest, most powerful, and influential of all Greek city states - despite being located on Sicily. They were the arch-enemies of Carthage for centuries (Rome was a late-comer, starting out as a minor Carthaginian ally), invented the quinquereme (penteres), and had Archimedes.

I think Syracusans would be rather easy to add, actually. Allows to have a Greek faction campaign vs. Carthage. Archimedes could even be one of their heroes.

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14 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

VR ? Nah Unity calls that XR now

Ah yes, xirtual reality. The next step in gaming

Sounds like some newfangled pronoun

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7 hours ago, Zeta1127 said:

I just said the Thebans, because I really want them, since they are the biggest hole in being able to do the Peloponnesian War, and to a lesser extent the Greek-Persian Wars, properly. Syracuse is definitely on the short list, along with Numidia, Pontus, and Parthia, for other civilizations to include in Empires Ascendant.

Thebes, Syracusae, and Epirus (Pyrrhus! Illyrian skirmishers, Macedonian pikemen, Tarentine cavalry, Egyptian elephants, and Molossian war dogs) are relatively easy to add in any mod by just re-using Greek actors. However, that is not in line with 0 A.D.'s intention of high quality and differentiation. Yes, the Athenian, Macedonian, and Spartan currently look the same, but I'm aware that's being gradually worked on.

4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Parthians must be second part I think. with Sasanids and may be Palmyra

No, the Parthian Empire (Arsacids) definitely belongs in the first part. It peaked around c. 150 B.C. and most of its later history consists of internal strife between various dynasts dying to be king. Around 120 B.C. the Han sent an embassy to Parthia to negotiate an alliance vs the Xiongnu (which was uneffective because of the communication logistics). A Parthian embassy famously met with Sulla around 95 B.C. (the ambassador was executed shortly afterwards). Because of our Roman-bias the Parthians are nowadays best known for crushingly defeating the much larger Roman army at the Carrhae in 54 B.C. (the victorious general was later executed). The Parthian Empire was already in decline before 1 B.C.

The Sassanians and Zenobia's Palmyra do belong in the post-1 A.D. timeframe (as do the Britons).

4 hours ago, sphyrth said:

Before you guys fully hijack the topic:

There was a time when I get a little bit irritated when people mock 0 A.D. as a "Forever Alpha" game. But given the trend that Rome 2 Total War started, no-one should mock the game for being an Honest Alpha.

Agreed, let's be proud of it!

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Not Omega? Or would that be the final patch, definitive edition of 0 A.D., out 4th quarter 2032 for all VR platforms.

That early? I believe you're way too optimistic.

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No, the Parthian Empire (Arsacids) definitely belongs in the first part. It peaked around c. 150 B.C. and most of its later history consists of internal strife between various dynasts dying to be king. Around 120 B.C. the Han sent an embassy to Parthia to negotiate an alliance vs the Xiongnu (which was uneffective because of the communication logistics). A Parthian embassy famously met with Sulla around 95 B.C. (the ambassador was executed shortly afterwards). Because of our Roman-bias the Parthians are nowadays best known for crushingly defeating the much larger Roman army at the Carrhae in 54 B.C. (the victorious general was later executed). The Parthian Empire was already in decline before 1 B.C.

The Sassanians and Zenobia's Palmyra do belong in the post-1 A.D. timeframe (as do the Britons).

Yes i know but I can't take the decisions here. they said Partisans for second part.

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Anyway, back to the original topic, perhaps we should advertise our alpha status a bit more prominently, perhaps by an explanation on the game's FAQ or About page, e.g.:

‘0 A.D. is sometimes being mocked as a “Forever Alpha” game. When work started back in 2002 (?) some optimistically claimed the final release might be “perhaps within a year or two”. The reason it is still in Alpha stage now is because Wildfire Games values quality above speed and does not intend to release an unfinished product. You can be assured the game is constantly being improved and updated: however good it may be, it can always get better. We're proud of being a permanent alpha!’

(Just my two cents.)

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1 hour ago, Nescio said:

Anyway, back to the original topic, perhaps we should advertise our alpha status a bit more prominently, perhaps by an explanation on the game's FAQ or About page, e.g.:

‘0 A.D. is sometimes being mocked as a “Forever Alpha” game. When work started back in 2002 (?) some optimistically claimed the final release might be “perhaps within a year or two”. The reason it is still in Alpha stage now is because Wildfire Games values quality above speed and does not intend to release an unfinished product. You can be assured the game is constantly being improved and updated: however good it may be, it can always get better. We're proud of being a permanent alpha!’

(Just my two cents.)

I won't aim it like this.


The long alpha way it's because the developers are volunteers, and it's a very big project.  Because is not only a game being developed, but also a very flexible engine. And also because there's a sense of quality as you pointed. And also cause the engine was rewritten at some point by Ykkrosh (I think to the ground, but not sure). Another factor could be that working online in teams wasn't so easy in the 2000 earlies than now.

But I think that a permanent alpha status isn't good. That doesn't means that the devs could continue if they want to add features, balances or expansions to the game, but I would like to see one day the game finished, and turned into a very popular game that overshadows the AAA games, and maybe becomes an E-Sport. 

And adding because the sake of adding, could cause a game with a collage of features and ideas that doesn't work together. More isn't better always.

Edited by av93

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I don't think I need to be told about Delenda Est, considering I ported some of the new civilizations, including the Thebans, into an expansion.

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8 hours ago, Nescio said:

Yes, the Athenian, Macedonian, and Spartan currently look the same, but I'm aware that's being gradually worked on.

 

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14 hours ago, av93 said:

And also cause the engine was rewritten at some point by Ykkrosh

As far as I know, the engine as a whole hasn't been rewritten (disregarding early prototypes), at least not since I've been here. The "engine" is really a collection of smaller "engines" though. I know a lot of reworking was done on the graphics engine and simulation. Ykkrosh completely rewrote the entire simulation portion, and designed and set up the component system we have now. It was called simulation 2 for a long time, but I think it got renamed to just simulation in the last couple of years. The first simulation was rather messy. For example,  it would sometimes invoke multiple function calls back and forth between Javascript and C++. I particularly remember that there was a Javascript function that did something simple like determining build counts. It was called from C++, but was implemented in Javascript presumably to be easily editable without having to recompile...

 

Edited by WhiteTreePaladin
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