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Nescio

0abc mod

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Nice hope most of the things before the bug work well. 

Some more things I noticed on the pre-bugged game I had is that the captured different Civ unit doesn’t build some of their (own) structure. For example I use a Seleucid Civ but a captured Ptolomic pike man won’t build a lighthouse.

I may need some more readme readings but when it comes to mercenaries is there a chance to identify them easily from the Civs regular units? I ask the question because I guess I noticed that some units can help build a structure but can’t initiate the building command. 

One good feature of your mod is like the DE style which you can build some structures in neutral or maybe possibly on enemy territory like the drop site but it turns to Gaia so quickly if you forget to garrison a unit inside. Is it possible to enable a shift + garrison command while the building is being constructed?!

I hope to enjoy a good game and will do it on Tuscan Acropolis because I had this very nice AI battle using A21(they really train massive and multiple units). TBH I’m very excited to play the new siege units.

Edited by Servo

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24 minutes ago, Servo said:

For example I use a Seleucid Civ but a captured Ptolomic pike man won’t build a lighthouse.

How is it possible to capture a pikeman?

25 minutes ago, Servo said:

I may need some more readme readings but when it comes to mercenaries is there a chance to identify them easily from the Civs regular units?

Yes:

  • mercenaries have the “mercenary” visible class (and champions the “champion” class);
  • infantry citizens typically have a blue-ish icon, mercenaries a green-ish, and champions a red-ish;
  • they have different selection markers, from left to right:
    healer (plus), citizen (circle), mercenary (rhombus), champion (arrow), hero (star):

59f381d6bbfac_Screenshotfrom2017-10-2720-58-07.png.300d4e9932cc792a7fa7c4d2b8aae9b2.png

31 minutes ago, Servo said:

I ask the question because I guess I noticed that some units can help build a structure but can’t initiate the building command.

That's correct:

  • worker elephants can build but can not initiate any structures
  • females can build and can initiate and non-defensive and non-military structures
  • citizens can build and can initiate all available structures
  • mercenaries can build and can initiate only defensive and military structures
  • champions and heroes can not build anything
34 minutes ago, Servo said:

One good feature of your mod is like the DE style which you can build some structures in neutral or maybe possibly on enemy territory

Yes, fields, economic structures, and walls can be constructed in neutral territory, as can centres, crannogs, docks, harbours, shipyards, and outposts. The Roman army camp is the only structure which can be constructed in enemy territory. I don't know what “DE style” is, I've actually never tried DE out (its download size is unacceptably large for me, as is the svn requirement).

40 minutes ago, Servo said:

A21

Keep in mind 0abc is based upon A22; using it in combination with another version might cause errors.

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I use “wololo” and it works on lots of structures except that some like lighthouse can’t be built by captured(wololo) units. 

It works in other mods too. 

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DE buildable structures on neutral territory don’t turn into Gaia and remains into builders ownership until captured by different player. I prefer the Gaia decay though if not garrison or aura applied. 

 

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I observed the behaviors of a couple Civs. I think the AI is programmed per Alpha as to what units are trainable in every specific structure.

1. Iberian, Romans and probably any Civs that don’t require stables to train cavalry(only barracks) trains them. I guess it’s the same as siege are originally programmed to be trained in specific structures. For example Carthage don’t train cavalry probably because they don’t recognize the stables you altered for your mod. Though it trained Balaric slingers and Greek hoplite. 

2. They are trading silver but they only use barter for resources.

3. There are still bugs about building structures that shows complete HP but the building still continues endlessly. This will be a bit annoying but if I play for fun against AI I can just use wololo cheat to redirect the mode or movement so they can change their next move and minimize bugs . Another bug if know is that AI is kinda cheating because the farm automatically getting built(HP) but the animation looks unbuilt farm.

For now I can still play with fun by selecting the Civ AI opponents that train multiple mixed units like Iberian, Romans, Persians, Gauls etc but they might not train siege units. Fine with me though because AI train quite a lot of sieges which are too strong based on my game with Vox. I only wanted to do and have fun with organic battle. Use wololo to redirect some bugs and I should be fine.

I think for Carthage the embassy can be converted to stables. The AI used to build Gallic and Iberian embassy and train units from there. 

Multiplayerwise I think the mod will be fine except the annoying build bug. 

 

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20 hours ago, Nescio said:

59f381d6bbfac_Screenshotfrom2017-10-2720-58-07.png.300d4e9932cc792a7fa7c4d2b8aae9b2.png

THIS! This is what I wanted on the core game. I can't remember when I suggested it.

Permission to feature 0abc on my channel.

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In reversed order:

5 hours ago, Servo said:

@Nescio please fix the corral build time, it’s 5000. 

Fixed about eight hours before you posted. (Keep in mind I update the github repository more frequently than I post in this forum thread.)

9 hours ago, sphyrth said:

THIS! This is what I wanted on the core game. I can't remember when I suggested it.

Actually I've created a diff to include these and a few more selection marker shapes into 0 A.D. nearly two months ago, but it still has to be reviewed and subsequently implemented on phabricator: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D889

9 hours ago, sphyrth said:

Permission to feature 0abc on my channel.

Feel free to go ahead, but keep in mind 0abc is in constant development (it's a test mod for an alpha game, after all).

10 hours ago, Servo said:

1. Iberian, Romans and probably any Civs that don’t require stables to train cavalry(only barracks) trains them. I guess it’s the same as siege are originally programmed to be trained in specific structures. For example Carthage don’t train cavalry probably because they don’t recognize the stables you altered for your mod. Though it trained Balaric slingers and Greek hoplite.

The AI behaviour is something I don't understand (yet), but it certainly is on my to-do list. The default AI has no difficulty with new units (as can be seen by the numbers of mercenaries they train). Furthermore, in a short test game yesterday I've observed several AI players constructing siege workshops in the city phase (although it's available in town phase), and one Gaul player leveled my farmstead with a couple of battering rams, therefore I guess the AI is capable of building siege engines (although it might deem them cost-ineffective); the AI also trains the most expensive heroes (all heroes are trainable at centres, instead of fortresses); however, I've not seen any chariots or war elephants.

Quite annoying is the fact that many structures appear to be hardcoded in the AI files (units are typically not); it seems the AI is currently incapable of constructing camel stables, cavalry stables, elephant stables, halls, and palaces, which means that only the four factions which currently lack those (brit, gaul, iber, rome; these do not have mercenaries) are capable of training cavalry, all champions, etc. Again, I don't know yet how to fix it, but it is on my to-do list.

10 hours ago, Servo said:

2. They are trading silver but they only use barter for resources.

In a test game I observed the AI acquires silver (via traders) and spends it on purchasing other resources, which I think is acceptable behaviour.

10 hours ago, Servo said:

3. There are still bugs about building structures that shows complete HP but the building still continues endlessly.

As I've answered at least once earlier in this thread:

On 23/10/2017 at 11:30 AM, Nescio said:

Recently I experienced a few myself, these are quite annoying. I don't understand why they happen, it's not a systematic error. If I build a row of five houses it typically works fine, but occassionally one is left in a state of 100%-but-nevertheless-unfinished-limbo. I *guess* it might have something to do with overlap with other structures or objects.

Try avoiding unnecessary overlap with other structures and obstruction objects.

10 hours ago, Servo said:

This will be a bit annoying but if I play for fun against AI I can just use wololo cheat to redirect the mode or movement so they can change their next move and minimize bugs .

0abc ought to be playable without cheats.

10 hours ago, Servo said:

Another bug if know is that AI is kinda cheating because the farm automatically getting built(HP) but the animation looks unbuilt farm.

Could you elaborate?

10 hours ago, Servo said:

I think for Carthage the embassy can be converted to stables. The AI used to build Gallic and Iberian embassy and train units from there.

Actually I've disabled Carthage's embassies (although I actually liked them) and replaced it with an infantry barracks and a cavalry stables (as have most other factions).

10 hours ago, Servo said:

Multiplayerwise I think the mod will be fine except the annoying build bug.

Personally I don't care about multiplayer. If I can't make the AI capable of building new and renamed structures, I'll probably end up reverting and postponing those changes.

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1 hour ago, Servo said:

Corrals still longer build time despite lowered HP (600)on build but I noticed the structure tree has 5000 build time. Could it be that the structure tree specs (parent?) overides gameplay build?

Or could it be that you simply have not updated your files? As you can see the file has been corrected many hours ago:

https://github.com/0abc/0abc-unified/blob/master/simulation/templates/template_structure_economic_corral.xml

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4 hours ago, sphyrth said:

My 1024x768 Screen is a Nightmare for GUI Modders.

Modifying the GUI is quite annoying anyway, don't blame your screen :) The game ought to be playable on screens with a width of 1024 or 960 pixels as well as on widescreens of 3840 pixels wide.

4 hours ago, sphyrth said:

Asides from the Resources,

Actually I intend to list the resources vertically in a separate panel to the left of the minimap (which is also why I moved the minimap again); I'm still working on fixing a few errors.

4 hours ago, sphyrth said:

the Hero Icon and Minimap are overlapping.

Apparently I forgot to save a changed number earlier; it's now fixed.

 

 

PS Those additional selection markers have been accepted by elexis and are included in the svn. Healers now have a plus-shaped marker in A23.

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15 minutes ago, Nescio said:

PS Those additional selection markers have been accepted by elexis and are included in the svn. Healers now have a plus-shaped marker in A23.

that's amazing. As said before, i wonder if this could be used as excuse to get rid of the support class. Having more units of "support" class with basically nothing in common is a bit messy.

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0abc updated:

  • gui: resources are now listed vertically in a panel to the left of the minimap; fixed structure tree error
  • ai: used mimo's rP20389 and rP20399 as a blueprint to make the ai capable of constructing the newly available structures in this mod (halls, shipyards, siege workshops, stables, etc)
  • included Alexandermb's updated lithobolos visual actors
  • replaced combined barracks with an infantry barracks and a cavalry stables for all factions which did not yet have stables
    • disabled Ptolemaic camel stables
  • teambonuses are made stackable
  • new auras:
    • caravan: land traders grant +1 c/h/p armour to other land traders within 10m
    • convoy: merchant ships grant +1 c/h/p armour to other merchant ships within 20m
    • infantry garrison: battering rams have +0.3 walk speed per infantry unit garrisoned inside
  • all walls no longer have any territory influence
    • palisade/wooden (village) walls can be constructed in own, neutral, enemy, and allied territory
    • siege/turf (town) walls can be constructed in own, neutral, and enemy territory
    • stone (city) walls can be constructed in own and neutral territory
    • default health to resourcecosts ratio is at 25:1 for all walls
    • default health to buildtime ratio is at 50:1 for all walls
  • several other minor changes, corrections, etc.

As usual, there exists a 0abc-readme.pdf for more detailed information.

Edited by Nescio
ce
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Nice. I can’t wait to update. One good thing with your mod is that I noticed it automatically updates the saved games too. This way I don’t need to create a new game to enjoy some interesting changes. Hope the AI make some siege units this time. 

So far the AI is still a bit bugged imo coz they don’t really attack. They only do so if you incite them by attacking or go near their army concentration. Also the AI (Iberian)  units are attacking and trying to destroy their captured or controlled structure like lighthouse and bridge. 

By far the Iberian and Roman factions are training various organic units including champions. Ptolomy is just contented with training mercenaries and regular foot units. All factions have so much resources in their disposal.

Another thing that I noticed is that the AI build so many unnecessary towers and forts instead of making armies. Seems like a prerequisite to proceed to the next preprogrammed command. 

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0abc updated again:

  • removed population bonuses from individual brit and gaul structure templates. Instead, included it in the Celtic structure bonus:
    • economic structures grant +2 population
    • military structures grant +4 population
    • temples grant +6 population
  • unlock champions is available to all factions
  • various minor corrections
10 hours ago, Servo said:

One good thing with your mod is that I noticed it automatically updates the saved games too. This way I don’t need to create a new game to enjoy some interesting changes.

You're mistaken; this is neither good, nor specifically related to my mod. It's a feature of 0 A.D. itself: save games preserve the mod names, but not the mod versions. This means that although you can often (but not always) load save games started with earlier versions of a mod, unexpected errors might occur (e.g. that aura error you posted). It's advisable to finish or delete your old save games and simply start new games after updating a mod.

10 hours ago, Servo said:

Hope the AI make some siege units this time.

Yes, I can confirm all factions construct at least battering rams, and train cavalry and infantry champions as well as mercenaries and citizens.

Edited by Nescio
ce

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In my previous update  my saved games run very nice with some occasional Roman errors. The new changes were autoupdated

With new update I played the same saved games even with errors popping out.My Ai automatically captured enemy Ai and the HP was still high (strange but nice).

Maybe due to error only my slingers can repair damaged structure on default, the rest I need to click on repair icon.

Seems like the recapture rate by units inside the structure is very slow at almost 90% level. When I click a single unit to recapture it can't. But when in multiples they can recapture the remaining capture HP.

When I highlight all units in the screen only a couple units HP bars can be seen.

 

Edited by Servo

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0abc updated again:

  • numerous changes to special technologies, champion rosters, bonuses, etc.
    • chariots are moved to siege workshops (instead of halls)
    • scythed chariot aura: -2 c/h/p armour of enemy melee infantry within 15 m
    • Britons can train naked fanatics from captured Gaul taverns
    • Macedonians can train mercenary elephants from captured elephant stables
6 hours ago, Servo said:

In my previous update  my saved games run very nice with some occasional Roman errors. The new changes were autoupdated

With new update I played the same saved games even with errors popping out.My Ai automatically captured enemy Ai and the HP was still high (strange but nice).

Maybe due to error only my slingers can repair damaged structure on default, the rest I need to click on repair icon.

Seems like the recapture rate by units inside the structure is very slow at almost 90% level. When I click a single unit to recapture it can't. But when in multiples they can recapture the remaining capture HP.

When I highlight all units in the screen only a couple units HP bars can be seen.

Try starting a new game after updating the mod and see if any errors occur then.

Edited by Nescio
ce

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I started a new one and looks really good though loading takes a little while. I will repudate with the latest then start a new one again. I’m really satisfied with the Romans and Iberian AI though not the Ptolomies so I might replace it with Carthage because they used to produce range sieges and want to see the new animations that Alexander did if updated. 

in your opinion is it a good idea for the AI being allowed to build max 30 towers and a lot of forts? This just waste their resources in the beginning and hindering the training of more offensive units. iMO  AI opponents should be more programmed offensively using dynamic units (I know might not be your concern and scope) and building offensive static structures like towers and forts would affect and hinder production of dynamic offensive units. 

Also I’m not sure which starting resources if there’s an effect of AI behavior but I will try the Quite Low (300 each) this time. 

One more thing is if I won’t replace the previous update (with saved games) and download the new ones, not replacing the previous will I have two types of 0abc mod? I haven’t tried this but might try next time. 

Edited by Servo

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In case you haven't noticed i've made am update of the cavalry (including actors) feel free to use it on your mod, it will be useful to have people testing and see if anyone can see bugs or frames i haven't noticed yet in the animations beside ideas while i'm still working on it. Feel free to make any comment and suggestions for animations. 

On 8/11/2017 at 2:37 AM, Alexandermb said:
  • adjusted mesh of horse to match the similar uv's of the original horse
  • use the same skeleton of the original horse for avoid bugs
  • Blender file with helpers for modders
  • Blender file with ridders animations
  • Every visible cavalry updated (Notify me if i miss one)
  • Mod for easy handle in Alpha 22
    (I'm not good with cape's)

    Screenshots
Edited by Alexandermb
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It's a feature of 0 A.D. itself: save games preserve the mod names, but not the mod versions.


Nope, that's a bug. I expect this to be fixed a the same time as handling mods in the lobby.

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0abc is updated again:

  • espionage (vision sharing): all units are bribable, no structures are
  • centres cost -50% time and resources in village phase only (town phase doubles i.e. restores it)
  • centres have somewhat higher crush armour (battering rams proved to be too effective)
  • civic structures within 50 m of centres have +50% capture points
  • several aura changes
  • 100%-but-unfinished-structure bug probably fixed now
  • other minor improvements
On 10/11/2017 at 10:30 PM, Servo said:

though loading takes a little while.

Unfortunately, yes, this is quite a nuisance. It seems the more files (templates?) a mod has, the longer generating a new game takes.

On 10/11/2017 at 10:30 PM, Servo said:

in your opinion is it a good idea for the AI being allowed to build max 30 towers and a lot of forts?

This is default A22 petra AI behaviour which I didn't change.

On 10/11/2017 at 10:30 PM, Servo said:

One more thing is if I won’t replace the previous update (with saved games) and download the new ones, not replacing the previous will I have two types of 0abc mod?

You can have as many different copies as you like, just give the folders different names; however, I can assure you from my own experience it can be quite confusing to keep track of everything. A single repository is much easier to handle.

On 11/11/2017 at 4:18 AM, Alexandermb said:

In case you haven't noticed i've made am update of the cavalry (including actors) feel free to use it on your mod, it will be useful to have people testing and see if anyone can see bugs or frames i haven't noticed yet in the animations beside ideas while i'm still working on it. Feel free to make any comment and suggestions for animations. 

I've downloaded and tried out your horse package but decided against including it into the 0abc mod, because it's quite large and has just a minor benefit. However, players can load and use your new horse mod in combination with 0abc, which works fine if 0abc is loaded last (in mod selection from top to bottom: 0adA22, New Horse, 0abc).

17 hours ago, leper said:

Nope, that's a bug. I expect this to be fixed a the same time as handling mods in the lobby.

Bug or whatever, it's part of A22, I believe.

Edited by Nescio
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It seems the more files (templates?) a mod has, the longer generating a new game takes.


Might be caused by how the AI currently handles template loading. In A22 it loads all of them at the start, so that does slow things down. It still does that in SVN, but some work to enable us to move away from that behaviour has been done. However it seems the contributor working on that has been busy.

which works fine if 0abc is loaded last (in mod selection from top to bottom: 0adA22, New Horse, 0abc)


As I haven't looked at any of those mods in any detail take this with a grain of salt. As long as the New Horse mod does not change any templates (because only the actor files change), and your mod does not change any of the horse actors, and both of the mods have dependencies specified correctly such that they depend on 0ad, then there shouldn't be any need for manually ordering them in any specific way.

Bug or whatever, it's part of A22, I believe.


Just because something works a certain way right now does not mean it cannot be a bug. Same as eg the AI not serializing/deserializing properly is considered a bug.

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Right now I’m playing from with your previous update(the one before the latest). The AI are still in  P2 so I’m not expecting any siege unit soon. So far the AI looks fine building stables and training cavalries. Stables though are all the same on all the factions involved in my game. 

@Alexandermb the stone thrower has much better animation now but maybe little more tweaks coz I could see two stones right before the release(micro seconds difference).

TBH I’m fine with all the animations though I observe most if not all range organic units needs some more adjustments. 

1. Archers have a late pull than the arrow release. Both cavalry  and foot archers. The arrow should still be visible up to the the maximum pull. Slingers behave almost the same too. The slings are still behind while the projectiles are released already.

2. Javelins disappears from the hands earlier and comes out later from the middle body. Both cavalry and infantry javeliner. 

For now I will stay with the older updated mod on my 1 pc but if there are new updates and animations I could still test/try on my windows pc. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Servo

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10 hours ago, leper said:

Might be caused by how the AI currently handles template loading. In A22 it loads all of them at the start, so that does slow things down. It still does that in SVN, but some work to enable us to move away from that behaviour has been done. However it seems the contributor working on that has been busy.

Hopefully that'll be changed eventually. 0abc's simulation folder, though only 2 MB in size, already contains over three thousand files. When starting a new random map, getting to 99% takes seconds, from there to actual start of the session takes several minutes.

10 hours ago, leper said:

As I haven't looked at any of those mods in any detail take this with a grain of salt. As long as the New Horse mod does not change any templates (because only the actor files change), and your mod does not change any of the horse actors, and both of the mods have dependencies specified correctly such that they depend on 0ad, then there shouldn't be any need for manually ordering them in any specific way.

If “New Horse” didn't have a simulation folder, order wouldn't matter. However, it does contain half a dozen templates, which is why 0abc has to be last.

10 hours ago, leper said:

Just because something works a certain way right now does not mean it cannot be a bug. Same as eg the AI not serializing/deserializing properly is considered a bug.

What I only meant to say is it's part of A22, not specifically of 0abc.

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