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LordGood

Hellenizing the Ptolemies

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Perhaps I should separate the house actors, that yellow roof doesn't mix too nice with the Seleucid tile roof. A bit big for 5 pop houses too.

Im thinking adding hellenized buildings, maybe just houses get way too visually hectic way too quickly

screenshot0114.png

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Possibly, we could make the military buildings more hellenic, but keep the civilian structures Egyptian.  That could be a nice divide, because the majority of the civilians were still Egyptian, but the military was Greek Styled, if not mostly Greek in manpower

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Hello, LordGood

I want to say thank you for doing this, and I like your buildings more than the current.

They do still retain that yellow sort of color though. I'm not sure what you think about that, so I wanted to tell you about the materials the Greek and Egyptians used for for their buildings. Though you may already know some or all of this.

I've read the Egyptians liked whitewashed limestone as finish for their temples or government buildings and of course the iconic pyramids; the Egyptians would sand off the weathered part of the rock to get to it's coveted white interior. Using that technique the pyramids themselves were (from a distance) said to look like perfect triangular mirrors. 

The Greeks loved another white stone in the form of marble: Often used for their temple complexes or just their "special" buildings, that in contrast from it's decorative but gaudy pastels made them visually striking to onlookers.

My point being, its maybe not the perfect, but a pretty good storm for white colored buildings, at least when it comes to the important ones.

With all of that aside, I really like your new buildings, it's good work. Just continue changing them!

Edited by Ayol
Improved sentence clarity, spelling corrections
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone

(Replying to suggestion in other thread that current Ptol wonder ist better than Pharos because desert lighthouses are pointless)

I definitely like the Temple of Edfu also. I really do.

But if the Ptolemies are to be hellenized, someone has to be willing to 'sacrifice' some of the old cool buildings, for new-design. Below the core of current buildings:

ptoll.thumb.png.377f3cf5381ed4ac53f9303968a357f7.png

 

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Concrete ideas for hellenization of Ptolemies:

1) Replace weird fancifully crenellated wall (colour and masonry good - just replace decoration with clean smooth limestone-facade of blocks):

grafitti-gate.jpg.0af9c8ff6dcafc0ca5568908d30ab7c3.jpg Ptolemaic gate: below massive monument wall- but imagine it scaled-down to be 8-10m tall, and towers 11-14.h44-30049060.thumb.jpg.d19a6a9a84f29ef00e0ac70bc7e544cd.jpg


2) Just give all towers/gate such a uniform limestone-masonry front. Only decoration small windows up, and a door/gate like the one of the pharos in miniature:

ProportionPorteStatue.jpg.99de6d3232be1551ad6a8dde45aa3b63.jpg

la-mediation-du-patrimoine-sousmarin-57-638.jpg.6ff2ec9806792a412a8d9596c8c20c13.jpg


3) Add colonnades, doric/ionic/corinthian to: Archery range, stable, workshop. Also possible is the use of pillasters! :

2341478191_ff3592d1af_o.thumb.jpg.62c2c9507466e4871d604e41cef5b902.jpg

19794490562_c98de71aee_o.thumb.jpg.fe32ca78097fa3debf5be07a1ce446f7.jpg

19806665891_6440c8512a_o.thumb.jpg.c620b9b5dfffd6f5d45c15221d5ee55f.jpg19775528466_794b7968ce_o.thumb.jpg.ffc0ee7bd35a9313a43dd409be7aa884.jpg

 

In general, add triangled roofs to structures, and attach low colonnades for shade/cool along the inner walls - instead of the tent-marquee.

4) Tidy up those flat roofs. remove shields and pottery; replace Persian carpets in archery range and market. Ptolemaic civilization represents the pinnacle of antiquity, science, arts, poetry, literature, philosophy. Look at that last picture with the four sphinxes and entrance - this was a tidy and well-disciplined, ordered hierarchical state.



If you want to keep the cool wonder and temple "Egyptian", I suggest Hellenization of:

CIVIL CENTRE, BARRACKS, BLACKSMITH, WORKSHOP, HARBOUR. (hellenize the harbour completely and make it the coolest of all civs?)

 

 

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

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As one recommendation, add a depiction for temples of Serapis.  Serapis was an important symbol of Ptolemies themselves.  There are a few visual references to how they looked such this coin for an Alexandrian part.  While this doesn't need to be a standard replacement, I think that having it as a variant or even just and map editor prop would be good.

.  Image result for serapis temple alexandria

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8 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

As one recommendation, add a depiction for temples of Serapis.  Serapis was an important symbol of Ptolemies themselves.  There are a few visual references to how they looked such this coin for an Alexandrian part.  While this doesn't need to be a standard replacement, I think that having it as a variant or even just and map editor prop would be good. 

.  Image result for serapis temple alexandria

The temple of Serapis at Alexandria was quite famous and renown. I know a depiction about it, what do you think @Anaxandridas ho Skandiates ?
https://sites.google.com/a/hanovernorwichschools.org/alexandria-tourism-commitee/attractions/the-temple-of-serapis

https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2015/11/09/what-did-the-serapeum-in-alexandria-actually-look-like/

Edited by Genava55
My mistake, the maquette is a roman model of the temple

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8 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Now THAT is excellent work.

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yes i forgot this.

Just now, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

Now THAT is excellent work.

we can replace Roman mosaic by this. if we found a public domain version.

 

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This is the famous nile mosaic, it is definitely Hellenistic workmanship, copying a painting or direct tradition of quite high quality painting, if not the highest;

Everything in that Mosaic should be used to the fullest extent in hellenizing the Ptolemies. One of our best sources, even as it will tend to show the spectacular crocodiles, animals, Egyptian stuff, for an orientalizing effect: These are images from the real world, just as the Idylls of Theokritos and the Mimes of Herodas are words from the real world.

Colours have faded a bit, but maybe someone can adjust them in photoshop? Take care, for God's sake - Better have a bit bleak original authentic colours on your Ptolemaic structures (notice golden roof in this example), than too-intense photoshop colours "made" by one of us tweaking around the colours.

 

Praeneste_-_Nile_Mosaic_-_Section_16_-_Detail.thumb.jpg.50152dd4b76636c12c4925d93995e1f3.jpg

 

 

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@LordGood I greatly greatly appreciate the amazing work on Ptolemaic structures. Have you seen my contributions here and is there any way I might help you hellenize 3-5 additional structures for greater historical realism? There is no stress about it. Also, the suggestion of polished 'whiter' stone suggested by @Ayol is worthy of consideration. They also said the Pharos rose like a gleaming white tower.

I understand that doing large work over again can be a headache; but the reward is a greater realism, than any game or depiction has hitherto achieved.

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I have quite a few loose ends to tie up before i get back into development, Ptolemies and vegetation were my go-to's on return.

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42 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Hopefully someone can remove those obelisks from the civic centre and military colony.

Why ?

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They do not belong in Ptolemaic cities. Obelisks are something typical of the Egyptian Middle Kingdom (c. 2000-1200 BC), when they were erected in pairs near the entrance of major temples; there are some later examples, but obelisks never were as common as altars, columns, or statues. In Roman times emperors started shipping numerous centuries-old obelisks to Rome, but that's outside 0 A.D.'s timeframe.

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52 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Hopefully someone can remove those obelisks from the civic centre and military colony.

The obelisks aren't the problem, it's the civic center itself. It looks like a serious misinterpretation of a temple's pylon.

In the Ptolemaic Dynasty, obelisks continued to be made, and old ones re-used, both large and small. 

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/565085

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philae_obelisk

Pliny apparently even describes Ptolemy II erecting an obelisk...

So in short, the obelisks are fine.

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Those Ptolemaic obelisks are a lot smaller (the one in the Met is under 2 m; the Philae obelisk is under 4 m); functionally they were similar to other Ptolemaic steles such as the Rosetta stone.

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