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Hey everyone,
Several years ago I was considering creating a sci-fi RTS here in 0AD. Due to my other project taking up too much time, I sort of set it off to the side.
After getting fed up with the Medieval 2 engine I'm considering porting that big project, Hyrule Total War to 0 A.D. now.
I've started some preliminary work, porting a few of the static buildings over from Medieval 2 into 0AD:

Spoiler

EYGWgJ9.jpgbhAWdp0.jpg'EhklIlV.jpg5E4XXCA.jpg

I just have a few questions before I make the decision:

Spoiler

- Is there any kind of limit to the number of civs that can be loaded into the game at once?Like other games in the Total War series, Hyrule Total War has a much larger number than most RTS' games: 20 playable factions and a dozen NPC factions.

- Is it possible to make certain land based units able to move into water? Even better, can moving into water trigger certain animations instead of just walking and idling? There are several aquatic races in Hyrule that have the ability to cross deep water, this would be great if it could be done in 0AD.

- Similar to the first question, is it also possible to make it so certain units can move through trees or forests?

- Is there a stealth mechanic or any way to make units invisible? There is a faction in Hyrule based entirely around hidden and stealth units, which might not translate well into 0AD if there is no way for units to become invisible.

- I get the impression this is possible, since siege weapons can pack and unpack, but is it possible for a unit to switch forms with a transition animation in between? There are quite a few flying units in Hyrule: Total War, and I'd like to give an ability that allows them to switch between grounded and flying modes.

- Similar to Age of Empires 3, is there currently or future plans for map based NPC buildings that can be bought or allied with to get access to new units?

- Is there any diplomacy component planned for 0AD? Nothing complex, just the ability to maybe ally with AI's during the middle of a match?

- There are priest in the game, but are there any other plans for religion based mechanics?

- I notice sub-factions and things of that nature in the civ .json files. Might it be possible for a UI to pop up at the start of a match that lets a player pick between different heroes that give access to different units and technologies?

- Is there any plans, even if it's far off, for a turn based over-world campaign similar to Medieval 2? I'm willing to completely ditch this feature, though many of my followers are wondering if 0AD would ever have such a component.

- I've managed to import and get just about everything static into the engine fine, but I'm still having trouble getting my animations in. Sometime in the next week or so would anyone be able to show me steps or check my files so I can figure out this last step?

I thank anyone for their replies, and I hope I can come back to 0AD soon.

Edited by The Undying Nephalim
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I think a lot of those features would be fun.

One simple thing that I think could be very nice is a better way to manage large selections as that's rather messy right now. Age of Empires 3 had a feature to command all your military units on the map to rally at a particular spot. The button was located near the minimap. This is a very useful feature because the max selection size means that unit selections will ignore units after the max size has been reached making it very painful to move large groups of units.

 

1 hour ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Is there any kind of limit to the number of civs that can be loaded into the game at once?Like other games in the Total War series, Hyrule Total War has a much larger number than most RTS' games: 20 playable factions and a dozen NPC factions.

I don't think there is any limit.

 

2 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Is there any diplomacy component planned for 0AD? Nothing complex, just the ability to maybe ally with AI's during the middle of a match?

This should already be working.

 

2 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- There are priest in the game, but are there any other plans for religion based mechanics?

None that I'm aware of.

 

2 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Is there any plans, even if it's far off, for a turn based over-world campaign similar to Medieval 2? I'm willing to completely ditch this feature, though many of my followers are wondering if 0AD would ever have such a component.

This is a feature I've been wanting for a long time although I only have BFME 1 and 2 to compare too since I haven't played the total war series.

 

2 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- I've managed to import and get just about everything static into the engine fine, but I'm still having trouble getting my animations in. Sometime in the next week or so would anyone be able to show me steps or check my files so I can figure out this last step?

I think this is up to date: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/AnimationExportTutorial

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Quote

Is there any kind of limit to the number of civs that can be loaded into the game at once?Like other games in the Total War series, Hyrule Total War has a much larger number than most RTS' games: 20 playable factions and a dozen NPC factions.

@The Undying Nephalim

No. You can add as much civs.json as you like.

- Is it possible to make certain land based units able to move into water? Even better, can moving into water trigger certain animations instead of just walking and idling? There are several aquatic races in Hyrule that have the ability to cross deep water, this would be great if it could be done in 0AD.

Not sure. You could try to play around with templates.

- Similar to the first question, is it also possible to make it so certain units can move through trees or forests?

If those units had 0 obstruction it could work but that would mean they might be able to go through other stuff. That's something that could be tried.

Is there a stealth mechanic or any way to make units invisible? There is a faction in Hyrule based entirely around hidden and stealth units, which might not translate well into 0AD if there is no way for units to become invisible.

Not directly. There was a patch in #3177 that did just that but apparently it was the wrong approach.

- I get the impression this is possible, since siege weapons can pack and unpack, but is it possible for a unit to switch forms with a transition animation in between? There are quite a few flying units in Hyrule: Total War, and I'd like to give an ability that allows them to switch between grounded and flying modes.

delenda east does just that. You can upgrade entities into others. So with a 0 cost you change land units to flying units..

 

About anims let me know. What errors do you get ? I wrote a script that generates skeleton files from dae files.

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5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Is it possible to make certain land based units able to move into water?

This is possible without touching the engine in theory (and it would be a good test for the engine!) but it will come with a performance cost for the pathfinder.

5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

Even better, can moving into water trigger certain animations instead of just walking and idling?

No, but that might be possible to implement in the engine. If you can keep it for later... ;)

5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

Similar to the first question, is it also possible to make it so certain units can move through trees or forests?

No, trees are just obstructions, like buildings. If they can cross the trees they will be able to cross the buildings. You could also, conversely, make the trees have no obstruction, but then all the units would be able to move through trees, not just some of them.

A solution I imagine is adding a new type of terrain (the forest terrain) and do the same thing as for water. But this time the engine would need to be touched and that might impact the performance of the main game. Maybe this can be tried and tested though.

5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

Is there a stealth mechanic or any way to make units invisible? There is a faction in Hyrule based entirely around hidden and stealth units, which might not translate well into 0AD if there is no way for units to become invisible.

It's very easy to mod the Visibility component. As Stan says we didn't put it in the main game yet but that's not because of technical limitations.

5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

Similar to Age of Empires 3, is there currently or future plans for map based NPC buildings that can be bought or allied with to get access to new units?

Not really but modding that is possible. Just write a new component for this logic and add it to your building template. You will need to mod the ProductionQueue component to make it interact with your custom component.

5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

I notice sub-factions and things of that nature in the civ .json files. Might it be possible for a UI to pop up at the start of a match that lets a player pick between different heroes that give access to different units and technologies?

This would require work, but it's possible.

5 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

Is there any plans, even if it's far off, for a turn based over-world campaign similar to Medieval 2? I'm willing to completely ditch this feature, though many of my followers are wondering if 0AD would ever have such a component.

Probably not a fully featured turn-based over-world campaign. We don't have definitive plans in this area but the "strategic map" we could have for campaigns would be largely less important than in Total War:Rome II for instance (I never played Medieval 2, sorry)

 

I think the other questions were answered, and I'm sure you will get help for animations :)

Your first screenshots look great! I am excited by this project even though I don't know much about the world of Zelda ;)

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13 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- I notice sub-factions and things of that nature in the civ .json files. Might it be possible for a UI to pop up at the start of a match that lets a player pick between different heroes that give access to different units and technologies?

You could do that in-game by providing unlocking technologies that unlock one hero (and prevent the other technologies from being researched). (At least that was the way our generic civs (hellenes, celts) handled the choice quite some time ago.) One could possibly use a Trigger script and message box to make that decision if that is what you prefer.

13 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- There are priest in the game, but are there any other plans for religion based mechanics?

Probably not, but "religion based mechanics" is quite vague. One could add some way to get some "religion" resource (similar to AoM) and then use that for those mechanics, but some details on what those mechanics might be would help with answering this.

7 hours ago, Itms said:
13 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Is it possible to make certain land based units able to move into water?

This is possible without touching the engine in theory (and it would be a good test for the engine!) but it will come with a performance cost for the pathfinder.

Shouldn't that depend on whether the other classes (ships, big siege engines, etc) are still needed?

7 hours ago, Itms said:
13 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Similar to Age of Empires 3, is there currently or future plans for map based NPC buildings that can be bought or allied with to get access to new units?

Not really but modding that is possible. Just write a new component for this logic and add it to your building template. You will need to mod the ProductionQueue component to make it interact with your custom component.

Depending on how exactly you want that to work that is already possible. At least WC3-style camps that can be "acquired" using capturing are already doable (and IIRC are present in Delenda Est). So if the requirement for buying them or making it depend on diplomacy isn't that strict there is no new code needed.

7 hours ago, Itms said:
13 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Is there any plans, even if it's far off, for a turn based over-world campaign similar to Medieval 2? I'm willing to completely ditch this feature, though many of my followers are wondering if 0AD would ever have such a component.

Probably not a fully featured turn-based over-world campaign. We don't have definitive plans in this area but the "strategic map" we could have for campaigns would be largely less important than in Total War:Rome II for instance (I never played Medieval 2, sorry)

There are a few possibilities here. A WH4k DoW-style (or maybe CnC style) territory like map (without any real interaction apart from attack this thing now) should be doable with the very wip campaign infrastructure patch. Though I guess that falls short of a TW (basing this on Rome TW) quite a bit. One could emulate something like this (the AI would need quite some work though) by using triggers to block commands of other players for a "campaign turn" and add some way to end a turn. Actually starting matches might take some more work, I guess one could at least reuse parts of the campaign infrastructure if one decides to limit the available maps.

7 hours ago, Itms said:

Your first screenshots look great!

You might need a different green grass ground texture so things blend in nicer, apart from that it does look great!

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Thank you guys so much for responses, this is all sounding really promising and I'll attempt to mess with the engine and see what can be done.

First off...

12 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

anims let me know. What errors do you get ? I wrote a script that generates skeleton files from dae files.

This script sounds handy, is it just a bat file that runs on python or some thing of that nature?
I'll attach the dae's for the animation I'm trying to get in, as well as the T-pose for the skeleton to the post.

hyl_knight_tpose1.dae

HTW_biped_charge1.dae

 

21 minutes ago, leper said:

You might need a different green grass ground texture so things blend in nicer, apart from that it does look great!

I'll eventually replace probably everything with my own textures, although I should note that some of the factions will change the landscape around their buildings. The Kokiri for instance will create lush green patches around their bases that grow trees and bushes for harvesting.
 

11 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

The undeads like Dead sword or Poes.

Yes, I have the Dead Sword  as a Stalfos unit, and the Poes as an NPC unit in Hyrule: Total War. They'll both get ported over to 0AD:
iOnuXG2.jpgiX9Utn0.jpg

If anyone wants an idea of the kinds of civs and units you can expect to see, I have a wiki with everything as it is in Total War: 

http://hyruletotalwar.wikia.com/wiki/Hyrule:_Total_War#Factions

Edited by The Undying Nephalim
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21 minutes ago, leper said:
8 hours ago, Itms said:

This is possible without touching the engine in theory (and it would be a good test for the engine!) but it will come with a performance cost for the pathfinder.

Shouldn't that depend on whether the other classes (ships, big siege engines, etc) are still needed?

Ah indeed, if some pathfinder classes can be removed the performance cost can be evened out :)

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6 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

See :

 

The converter does not seem to be working. I've changed the file path and no error messages are showing up. I suspect something is wrong with the dae's I'm exporting.

 

Another question I forgot to ask:

- Does 0AD support LOD's? A lot of my models are rather high poly, but I use lower poly LOD's at greater distances so the frame rates don't tank. I can't seem to find anything that indicates there are LODs in the engine.

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2 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

The converter does not seem to be working. I've changed the file path and no error messages are showing up. I suspect something is wrong with the dae's I'm exporting.

 

Another question I forgot to ask:

- Does 0AD support LOD's? A lot of my models are rather high poly, but I use lower poly LOD's at greater distances so the frame rates don't tank. I can't seem to find anything that indicates there are LODs in the engine.

 

How did you run the script ? The file is outputted in the directory in the CMD path not the place where the dae is

No we don't have lod support and max number of tris for a single mesh is as far as I can tell 32768 tris. Then it crashes.

 

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15 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

- Does 0AD support LOD's? A lot of my models are rather high poly, but I use lower poly LOD's at greater distances so the frame rates don't tank. I can't seem to find anything that indicates there are LODs in the engine.

I don't think LoD has been implemented, at least not for models. I know there are mipmap levels in some of the .dds textures files. The .dds files are generated when needed, so you can just use .png for your textures. I don't know if the cached, generated .dds files utilize mipmap levels or not though. That would be something to check.

Edited by WhiteTreePaladin

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I highly recommend implementing LODs at somepoint, it could help out with frame rates and performance. 

12 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

 

How did you run the script ? The file is outputted in the directory in the CMD path not the place where the dae is

 

I put the .dae filepath after FILE_NAME in the skeleton_generator.py. Tried double clicking it to run, dropping the dae on it. Nothing happens.

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Stupid question number 1 do you have Python installed if so which version and are there some specialised Python libraries that the script uses if you are running a Linux OS then Python 3 is installed as part of the desktop support stack so stan which version does your script depend on ;)

Enjoy the Choice :)

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44 minutes ago, Loki1950 said:

Stupid question number 1 do you have Python installed if so which version and are there some specialised Python libraries that the script uses if you are running a Linux OS then Python 3 is installed as part of the desktop support stack so stan which version does your script depend on ;)

Enjoy the Choice :)

I have Python 3.5.0 installed as the readme recommended. I'm running it on Windows 7.

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2 hours ago, The Undying Nephalim said:

Tried double clicking it to run, dropping the dae on it. Nothing happens.

Try to run it from cmd or powershell this way:

.\skeleton_generator.py

or:

python .\skeleton_generator.py

you should see an output like this:

Done generating file: C:\Users\User\Downloads\bone_pelvis.xml

or an error message

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