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wackyserious

===[COMMITTED]=== Carthaginian Unit Textures

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@Nescio, Here are a 3 more artworks by Andrei Karaschuk/А Каращук, after googling the Russian name. Pretty nice stuff: 

Spoiler

"Xenophon's ten thousand - Greek hoplite, servant and Greek mercenary in the service of Cyrus the younger, V century BC" (a missing unit in the Persian unit roster?)

1868964822_Xenophonstenthousand-GreekhopliteservantandGreekmercenaryintheserviceofCyrustheyoungerVcenturyBC.thumb.jpg.35d09868c3ab1255d46c01c0e76837db.jpg

 

"Thracian peltasts and Greek Ekdromoi, 5 - 4th c. BC"

68178554_22ThracianpeltastsandGreekEkdromoi5-4thc.BC22AndreyKarashchuk(AK).thumb.jpg.d6468991aca9cc04efd64b4e72dff21a.jpg

 

"Scythian archer, V century BC, Lightly armed warrior Psili, V century BC, Athens dart thrower, second half of the V century BC"

935984098_ScythianarcherVcenturyBCLightlyarmedwarrior22Psili22VcenturyBCAthensdartthrowersecondhalfoftheVcenturyBCAndreyKarashchuk.thumb.jpg.a18f1bd30a9f49c093995bcec08be548.jpg

 

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The quality of the art is obvious to be sure, but I would be skeptical regarding the use of shields; the peltast holding a shield weighing something to the figure of 15 lbs.  Likewise, I am fairly sure that the aspis was not designed to be strapped onto the back.  I've never seen or read any primary sources which attests to this practice.  If anyone can provide evidence against either of these points, please do so, I am genuinely interested to know if I am wrong.  I should probably stop since this might derail the topic too much.

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On 3/11/2018 at 9:21 PM, stanislas69 said:

new turret_04.PNG

I might be a tad late to the party, but I don't get the brick pattern on the tower, specifically the corners/cornerstones.

This is leather? If I were to craft anything like this, I'd try to make sturdy panels for each side, attaching them to the corner poles of the tower; that would be clear edges, and certainly no leather pieces would go around the corner. A bit more like the first one on the left or the lower one:

On 3/11/2018 at 11:14 AM, Sundiata said:

 

  Hide contents

5aa4fb7a10486_carthageptolemieswarelephants.thumb.jpg.07df83898af54b2a547e86e893304ba4.jpg

 

 

68618a3262e21a299fa9d2112e108e7f.jpg.thumb.gif.feafbfe7821b5df9e6653aa57c261b64.gif

 

 

And I'd probably have additional vertical leather pieces protect the corners...

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19 hours ago, Sundiata said:

"Carthaginian infantry fighting in a phalanx with Libyan skirmishers ahead of them, 3rd century BC - art by Andrei Karaschuk (А Каращук)" That's about as far as I get when trying to search more info on the painting...

10 hours ago, Sundiata said:

@Nescio, Here are a 3 more artworks by Andrei Karaschuk/А Каращук, after googling the Russian name. Pretty nice stuff: 

  Reveal hidden contents

"Xenophon's ten thousand - Greek hoplite, servant and Greek mercenary in the service of Cyrus the younger, V century BC" (a missing unit in the Persian unit roster?)

1868964822_Xenophonstenthousand-GreekhopliteservantandGreekmercenaryintheserviceofCyrustheyoungerVcenturyBC.thumb.jpg.35d09868c3ab1255d46c01c0e76837db.jpg

 

"Thracian peltasts and Greek Ekdromoi, 5 - 4th c. BC"

68178554_22ThracianpeltastsandGreekEkdromoi5-4thc.BC22AndreyKarashchuk(AK).thumb.jpg.d6468991aca9cc04efd64b4e72dff21a.jpg

 

"Scythian archer, V century BC, Lightly armed warrior Psili, V century BC, Athens dart thrower, second half of the V century BC"

935984098_ScythianarcherVcenturyBCLightlyarmedwarrior22Psili22VcenturyBCAthensdartthrowersecondhalfoftheVcenturyBCAndreyKarashchuk.thumb.jpg.a18f1bd30a9f49c093995bcec08be548.jpg

 

Thanks for sharing, I was curious how and where you find such artwork.

There are several minor details I could nitpick about, but I suppose they're justified by artistic licence.

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8 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Likewise, I am fairly sure that the aspis was not designed to be strapped onto the back.  I've never seen or read any primary sources which attests to this practice.  

Aspis I am not sure. But Diphylon shield yes:

https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/439663982359344102/

However, it is a bit different from an aspis. 

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9 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Likewise, I am fairly sure that the aspis was not designed to be strapped onto the back.  I've never seen or read any primary sources which attests to this practice.

Interesting, I never even thought about that... I have indeed never seen a period depiction of that.

 

9 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I would be skeptical regarding the use of shields; the peltast holding a shield weighing something to the figure of 15 lbs.

Not quite sure that I understand what you're saying here.

 

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

Thanks for sharing, I was curious how and where you find such artwork.

Google is my friend :) (not really, but it knows my entire search history so I try to keep on it's good side)  

I reverse image search almost everything I post (to find the highest quality versions and their original context). I've been obsessively searching for ancient artwork and modern artist's interpretations of historical subjects for a very long time. The algorithms really know what I'm looking for by now... I have modest but pretty good personal library back in Belgium and I have this historian friend that has hundreds of high quality titles as well, + several hundred Osprey titles which I've drooled over more times than I care to admit :P  So I've been primed to a lot of relatively good stuff. I'm aware of the issues with Osprey and other comparable stuff, but I think the problem is more that some people expect a little too much from "pop"-history titles geared at the non-specialists who just want a basic but comprehensive introduction with some pretty pictures to go with).

I guess I take it for granted that modern artists' interpretations should always be taken with some caution. It's often just the best we got to give people a quick understanding without having to dive into the more difficult to find and assess primary sources. I do 100% appreciate and love primary sources above all, I'm just not familiar with all of it, so I really appreciate if someone provides them. 

 

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

There are several minor details I could nitpick about, but I suppose they're justified by artistic licence.

 Nitpick away! Personally, I understand artists taking artistic licenses, but I think they're only really appropriate when there is missing information that needs filling in. 

 

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

Aspis I am not sure. But Diphylon shield yes:

https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/439663982359344102/

Interesting...

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Resultado de imagen para dipylon shield

Resultado de imagen para dipylon shield

 

fRwZDNP.jpg

Quote

The warrior carries a shield of the"boeotian" type and he wears a helmet-Cvm-hat on his head. In his right hand he would have held his spear, which is not preserved. The figurine was found at Karditsa in Thessaly and is dated to 700-650 B.C. National Archaeological Museum of Athens

 

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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Quote

Plutarch actually notes, during the Battle of the Crimisus, that the Carthaginians wore “iron breastplates” that, combined with their large shields, made them very hard to kill (Plut. Tim. 28.1). Thus, it is problematic to say in a matter-of-fact way that the Sacred Band preferred the linothorax.

This was part of that article, again the use of iron body protection mentioned by Plutarch was noted. This was in 339 BC roughly around the time of Philip of Macedon's conquest of Greece.

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45 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

This was part of that article, again the use of iron body protection mentioned by Plutarch was noted. This was in 339 BC roughly around the time of Philip of Macedon's conquest of Greece.

Considering the scant sources, I don't see any reason to deviate from the few sources that we actually do have. So i'd say go for it! :) 

I know you're already familiar with Phillip II of Macedon's Iron cuirass:

1741610139_KingPhillipIIofMacedonIroncuirassHellenistic.thumb.jpg.dd25a44f964b163dceabe319bdb0f253.jpg

 

I wanted to share another Iron cuirass that I haven't seen on this forum yet. The Iron cuirass from the tomb on Prodrimo (Crete), 290 -270 BC (believed to be armour for  a cavalry man) 

Original:

1709273565_IroncuirassofProdromiHellenistic.thumb.jpg.3217670749e764c698f69d729cb10820.jpg

 

Reconstructed:

1152002817_IroncuirassofProdromiHellenisticreconstruction.thumb.jpg.ef96cac0461554052a8a768cd8302040.jpg

 

A little more info: https://hetairoi.de/en/grave-of-prodromi

 

The silver plated iron helmet from that tomb is amazing as well (reconstructed):

1971956742_Prodromitombsilverplatedironhelmet.thumb.jpg.13aec641d2057b6b9b44e62556fa8496.jpg

 

Original:

485155242_ProdromitombsilverplatedironhelmetoriginalHellenistic.thumb.jpg.18d7c785ab8543c314935c63aa8a59dd.jpg

Edited by Sundiata
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3 hours ago, wackyserious said:

I am not really satisfied on how it looks.

Maybe too much muscular. And the ends for the neck and the arms are maybe too wide (too big lines).

https://tiflos.artstation.com/projects/KDoJG?album_id=1406039

image.png.192e6ff6a4659ce94169b69157e9caa3.png

By the way, if this is not already used:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksour_Essef_cuirass

https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-diving-archaeologists-find-lion-helmet-from-punic-wars-1.5626649

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