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===[TASK]=== Crowd Sourced Civ Thracians

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16 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The texture I posted before not good enough? 

Ah right forgot ^^ Thanks for the reminder. 

I need to make the bump map for it

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This youtube channel is about some 3d reconstructions of Sarmizegetusa https://www.youtube.com/user/m1ha1r0/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd

More 3d stuff about sarmizegetusa http://www.romaniadevis.ro/dacia/zona-geto-daca/reconstituiri-3d/item/marele-templu-rotund-de-la-sarmizegetusa-regia

And Murus Dacius http://www.romaniadevis.ro/dacia/zona-geto-daca/reconstituiri-3d/item/murus-dacicus-zid-dacic

Remember that neither Dacians nor Thracians were highly urbanised societies. The mass of people lived in smaller country-side villages and towns, probably more resembling rural Celtic society, than Greece or Rome. The capital cities of Seuthopolis and Sarmizegetusa probably reflect the height of Mediterranean influence in their culture.

Edited by Sundiata
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I think the Greek looking, rectangular public structures from Seuthopolis, yes, and round rural buildings perhaps, but only wooden shingles, I think. Thatch would be more common in rural setting. 

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I found a thesis.

P

Quote

Thrace in its earliest form was a concept imposed on a group of tribes by other cultures with very little concern for accuracy; in these cases a Thracian might be interchangeable with a German or any other barbarian, becoming merely a subset of the Greek and Roman cultures’ larger concept of “the other.” When Thracians were given a separate identity by Greeks and Romans, there is still no agreement on what qualified as Thracian. For example, Herodotus defines the Thracians culturally, saying that they were regional tribes of a great number with no political cohesion but cultural ties distinct enough to separate them, at least in his mind, from the nearby Getae and 

Trausi peoples (Hdt. 5.3) Strabo, in Geography, describes them as an amalgamation of seven tribes; he excludes several tribes that the Greeks had previously identified as Thracian but gives no basis for his categorization (7.3.2). Jones states that the Thracian identity was “merely an ethnological expression.”

 

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Seuthes III, the king of the Odrysian tribe that controlled Thrace during the early Hellenistic period. The city was located at the foot of the Sredna Gora Mountains at the western extent of the valley and is currently covered by the waters of the Koprinka reservoir. Rescue excavations carried out by archaeologist D. Dimitrov furnished ample evidence of an advanced Hellenistic city distinctly influenced by Greek language and architecture.14 The city was laid out on a Hippodamian grid with highly developed public economic, religious, and royal spaces in addition to numerous private homes. Despite the city’s advanced development, however, the fortification walls only surrounded an area of approximately five hectares.15 This space could not have housed the mass of people that a capital city would have attracted and produced over the course of nearly two centuries; outlying rural and suburban areas likely held a significant portion of the region’s inhabitants. In addition, the remains of a previous city in the same location suggest that rural or suburban settlements would have already been established in the valley by the city’s construction at the end of the 4th century BC.16 Therefore, although private houses and their decoration are preserved within the city itself, it is difficult to associate definitively the residents of these houses with the residents of the Kazanlak Valley tombs. It is possible that the wealthy Thracians who commissioned and were buried in these tombs lived outside the small city, in towns or estates that do not survive. The tombs, therefore, stand in their own right as important cultural markers and indicators of Odrysian architecture and architectural decoration. 

 

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The second type of decoration is freestanding, carved separately and inserted into the tomb rather than developed from its structure.

Painted plaster is used to decorate both the stone and brick tombs. The paint found in these tombs is created from natural pigments that produce saturated colors capable of achieving complete opacity. The color palette is dominated by red, white, black, and yellow but blues and greens are also found as accent colors in painted friezes and on moldings. The full range of reds, yellows, oranges, and browns could be achieved through the manipulation of ochres containing iron and manganese oxides.52 These pigments could produce colors ranging from a mustardy yellow to the bright, powerful “Pompeian” red that seems particularly beloved by the Kazanlak tomb painters 

grobnici-v-dolinata-na-trakiiskite-care_

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The “Temple of Immortals” in Starossel reveals new secrets

The most imposing underground Thracian temple in Southeastern Europe is situated near the Bulgarian resort town of Hisarya. It was discovered 10 years ago by the renowned Bulgarian archaeologist Georgi Kitov. The temple includes a rock fence, big staircase and an internal hall with dome roof. In 2008 and 2009, a team led by doctor Ivan Hristov, made further discoveries and samples from the fireplace in the heart of the temple were used to find out the age of the complex. The temple was built in honor of the Hestia goddess and the ancient people left for her huge stone loafs of bread. The samples from the fireplace were analyzed in Germany. 
 

 

“The analysis shows the temple was built somewhere around 358-350 BC,” doctor Ivan Hristov says. Historical data point to the period of rule of Philip II of Macedon. At that time the Thracian king Amatok II was the ruler of the Thracian Odrisi tribe, followed by his son Teres II. Teres was overthrown by Philip. So, the construction of the temple started during the rule of these two Thracian kings. We don’t focus our efforts only on the temple. Starosel is actually a cult center, which includes a number of monuments dating back to the 4th century BC. These monuments are related to each other. In 2005 near the Kozi Gramadi peak in the Sredna Gora Mountain I found a king’s residence. It was destroyed during the campaign of Philip but its existence points to the existence of a Thracian political center in the region. This is also shown by the recent archaeological works in the region, which is very attractive to archaeologists. This year we are to start working again at the Kozi Gramadi archaeological site. This way we will be able to draw a connection between the temple in Starosel and the monuments high in the mountains.” 
The temple near Starosel was called “Temple of the Immortals.” Doctor Ivan Hristov told us more. 

 

The “Temple of Immortals” in Starossel reveals new secrets

The most imposing underground Thracian temple in Southeastern Europe is situated near the Bulgarian resort town of Hisarya. It was discovered 10 years ago by the renowned Bulgarian archaeologist Georgi Kitov. The temple includes a rock fence, big staircase and an internal hall with dome roof. In 2008 and 2009, a team led by doctor Ivan Hristov, made further discoveries and samples from the fireplace in the heart of the temple were used to find out the age of the complex. The temple was built in honor of the Hestia goddess and the ancient people left for her huge stone loafs of bread. The samples from the fireplace were analyzed in Germany. 
 

 

“The analysis shows the temple was built somewhere around 358-350 BC,” doctor Ivan Hristov says. Historical data point to the period of rule of Philip II of Macedon. At that time the Thracian king Amatok II was the ruler of the Thracian Odrisi tribe, followed by his son Teres II. Teres was overthrown by Philip. So, the construction of the temple started during the rule of these two Thracian kings. We don’t focus our efforts only on the temple. Starosel is actually a cult center, which includes a number of monuments dating back to the 4th century BC. These monuments are related to each other. In 2005 near the Kozi Gramadi peak in the Sredna Gora Mountain I found a king’s residence. It was destroyed during the campaign of Philip but its existence points to the existence of a Thracian political center in the region. This is also shown by the recent archaeological works in the region, which is very attractive to archaeologists. This year we are to start working again at the Kozi Gramadi archaeological site. This way we will be able to draw a connection between the temple in Starosel and the monuments high in the mountains.” 
The temple near Starosel was called “Temple of the Immortals.” Doctor Ivan Hristov told us more. 

“In this temple rituals related to the ruler’s immortalisation were carried out. After his death a Thracian ruler became kind of semi-god. The burials happened in another place in sarcophagus-like tombs. Doctor Georgi Kitov discovered such a tomb near the temple. I can draw a comparison to the cathedrals of the French kings where they were laid temporarily after their death and then buried nearby. The temple near Starosel had various functions and was used by the Odrisi dynasty in the 4th century BC.” 

According to the archaeologist, the temples in the region were connected through a route similar to the sacred road to Delphi. 

“Sacred places were not isolated from each other,” the archaeologist says. “Complexes were built near them for the needs of the pilgrims. That is how a whole sacred region emerged. The number of religious monuments in the region of Starosel is very big. What archaeologists find are artifacts related to the Thracian beliefs for life after death. We are still to gain more knowledge about the sacred route that reached to the king’s residence near the peak in Sredna Gora Mountain,” doctor Ivan Hristov says.

IMG_8010.JPG

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
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This guy actually used 0AD music, as the soundtrack for his airial shots of the ruins of Kabyle, one of Thrace's most important cities. Although I don't know what time-period these ruins date from.

 

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Don't know if these have been shared before, a collection of Thracian units:

Spoiler

c45417b9cd3641bf9e2d25e15f41537e.thumb.jpg.908322a857070d32b8759b9614033738.jpg

8e75123fa880fe674025a76b20a678fd.thumb.jpg.352e1c3ae5e3f578c80ad885062960fe.jpg

2b0a78cf05bb1e189dbc5af021600dbe.thumb.jpg.e56786968517ed5bf10588985f46be92.jpg

20a6bfe2252b2735d0cfdf544209dc5c.jpg.34ddb632a3e87634aa78b593a4bb100c.jpg

25ae42a58c8640f46db92a663edfd790.thumb.jpg.4318cfc7660e4ee81030d971348af4a0.jpg

649a3fe4a75d9fed79a5d5db900f8f39.thumb.jpg.87ddfebd88f12cbcf820b9bf16e52cdf.jpg

333bc39a6e1c51dff10c85fa471c3b30--greek-warrior-ancient-greek.thumb.jpg.bbb6e03f18dd0345d5f8eb51df8789bd.jpg

59e4c2f9aa040_Odrysiancavalry.jpg.268d8e65bac127a1eec40f0266afe509.jpg

9f2b57d3ca1c26436d3ff031c4b0855e--armies-ancient-greek.jpg.c9b552c9cafca03ba295122519d17b12.jpg

7552f3347556122fd266fc3b45d874d8.thumb.jpg.b782b0d71f39a023d03596f710f93031.jpg

cc9f2aa01c815ed7bbc81d1f19d6be07.jpg.2dd540f5a0687a7e292c75afeffd875a.jpg

sO1cnTcr.thumb.jpg.dfe63ecb5e521c68fc82bd6d8f033f8a.jpg

59e4c302bf993_Thraciancavalryodrysian.thumb.jpg.8a90fdc54af513d98f7a21347571bce5.jpg

59e4c306c0ada_Thracianinfantrymenandslinger.thumb.jpg.9da9d852e2fd810e20b630da736b66bb.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Sundiata
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Thracians: Random image references (architecture and units)

@stanislas69 A small reference update. Thracian units will be very easy to do, with the exception of siege equipment and navy (which seems to be more obscure). Architecture, as you've noticed will be more challenging, but I think you already have a good handle on it ("Greco-Barbarian"). I elect the palace at Seuthopolis as the Thracian CC, and should be the most Hellenic looking structure (although using those wooden shingles would tie it in well with the rest of the architecture set). 

 

I shared this one before (Seuthopolis):

Copyright_Tilev_Architects_8_S.thumb.jpg.e30aab73932055d70561b458046f5db1.jpg

 

Detail of the palace I elect for CC. I'd suggest discarding those defensive walls (part of the city walls), and using a long Greek Stoa as an approximate reference for the main building. The colonnaded courtyard is just perfect.  

Copyright_Tilev_Architects_9_S.thumb.jpg.daa51c02e846fc65a625b2eedd8cfa91.jpg

 

Spoiler

Something like the 2 story Athenian Stoa of Attolos (but with wooden shingles), with a single story colonnaded rectangular courtyard in front of it.

stoa-attalos-athens-greece-20116826.jpg.791bb6d356a4869cea9be48859b7c86b.jpg

Perhaps the second story of the Thracian CC could be supported by wooden instead of stone columns. The lower story should definitely be stone

 

Tomb entrance, shared by lion in a previous post:

2146096768_ScreenShot2018-05-23at20_47_15.thumb.png.c0c63966212030fbae3409deb2e78061.png

 

Interior plan of the tomb

402170210_ScreenShot2018-05-23at20_47_33.thumb.png.d42fa41926aa7a9ca5a93b2b7ebca585.png

 

 

Starosel, a Thracian temple/tomb complex, built inside a tumulus:

6751_650_.jpg.b268c0e56a2db496d11dbd5d7701bab6.jpg

170_3030.jpg.508b3f80f305ac91bad30dd12064b926.jpg

depositphotos_64753263-stock-photo-bulgaria-starosel-thracian-sanctuary.thumb.jpg.d690e11ae6b1af5f67b3be18139ce3a1.jpg

068_007_Hramov_kompleks_Starosel.jpg.23e6b3e0acc396c7559d0d6289ab3a74.jpg

 

 

A fortified hill top royal residence called Kozi Gramadi:

27416935_KoziGramadiThraciansite2015.thumb.jpg.f9be03225bfb98286eabe86bdee4eada.jpg

287_002_Kozi_gramadi_Staroselo.jpg.ce57e0aeab8aa2c2aaa04f3351bbe750.jpg

webthumb_2016.jpg.f6c29613a40f70fea4395f6932a8de6c.jpg

KOZI_GRAMADI_TYRZIS-2.thumb.JPG.aab65f0ddaa9fa3c678f18f8743c79f0.JPG

 

 

Thracian village life:

630813051_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_24_30.thumb.png.e3e84e0d92d70334f6844ffda9a232ca.png

681955062_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_24_00.thumb.png.30d926f13972f432a886b815d908ea6a.png

1728009395_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_22_27.thumb.png.b6c06cdc36c8a02368ed2e338f3e7d06.png

984438289_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_21_54.thumb.png.e7ba65737fa00ad61551e31f87f3f0cc.png

1480194344_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_21_35.thumb.png.6435925078d6e592cc21c03b7fff2a2b.png

2024439989_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_21_09.thumb.png.f8828338b786ffcaf384ccc0f0731977.png

 

 

Units:

They had chariots! :) 

807556117_ThracianchariotKaranovoeasternmound.jpg.a8d8fa2c891c7646d88aebf8f8074044.jpg

570651051_------.-----.jpg.1b595d9a9b863d1e8375682808fbede0.jpg

 

The restored decoration on the chariot actually gives some clues to (elite) architecture:

11-04-13-04600_1.jpg.5662c5cf0954d37cddbbe0eb36bc202c.jpg

 

Art.. Good quality representations in my opinion (based on actual finds of weapons and equipment):

28c529b1e225dc876327f8ce32bbd44c.thumb.jpg.bc8ff30cdcaf63438555077f82da9693.jpg

Thracian2.thumb.jpg.0bc1616de34e3005d45894b2d517c666.jpg

24YEOfR.thumb.jpg.45f0d44e570fea69f58d633b0cb33eb4.jpg

rlw81x8.thumb.jpg.2b907e3d4ab900a5904ae352d0cfb51c.jpg

HAT8044Box.jpg.dbb57af3c094181ce0bf868f74241988.jpg

 

(This guy's rhomphaia looks a little weird, but the rest is on point)

frakiiyci1.jpg.01dc7e1da914e15fcebb4f263eb83e7e.jpg

 

66frakijci.thumb.jpg.b7476e95259296ae38e06d9f8ffc52fd.jpg

 

 

And some Thracian gold:

The Panagyurishte Treasure (These guys have some full on Iranian influence...)

540753938-talab-ir.thumb.jpg.fe0cbc048b1a8026330b7a29cf52ddf8.jpg

 

I'm just absolutely in love with the fact that Thracians had art representing Sub-Saharan Africans (probably Kushites). To make it even more awesome, Kushites had Greek (Attic) pottery depicting Thracians in great detail. Even more amazing, there is Greek art depicting "Aethiopians" carrying those typically Thracian peltast shields (pelte). Almost incredible, or fantastical, one might say, but Kushites actually travelled through Thracian territory as mercenaries in Xerxes army during his invasion of Greece. How cool is that?! Antiquity is so interesting...

2003683227_BulgariaThraciangoldPanagyurishteTreasuredepictingAfricansKushites.thumb.jpg.17ffd22fabc7dd0ff78132d7c1e4f5ea.jpg

Golden-Phial-With-African-Faces-11.thumb.png.a3c97aaa4d949e56e8fe179f5b4c656b.png

 

more gold...

1989694259_-.jpg.50898163b7bcfeb7a8613d1fd0a02561.jpg

241009980_Thraciangold.thumb.jpg.96f8a0f6b783c2e98f210231094bbcec.jpg

f8d59c322d40d8a3d24d0f55310f6e2e.thumb.jpg.814fa9b255f44bbc3241a675c0d31052.jpg

 

If anyone in this forum speaks Russian or Bulgarian, they could be of great help in the research. Most of the juicy stuff seems to be in those languages...

Here are some good sources. I honestly didn't read through all of it, but its definitely worth a look for anyone looking for a little more in depth info on the Thracians:

 

https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/history/military_history/Osprey - MAA 360 - The Thracians 700 BC - AD 46.pdf

https://www.metmuseum.org/pubs/bulletins/1/pdf/3258668.pdf.bannered.pdf

http://www.archaeology.ru/Download/Niculice/Niculice_1987_Severnye.pdf

https://guidesbg.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/A_Guide_to_Thracian_Bulgaria.pdf

https://www.iianthropology.org/ChristopherWebber.pdf

 

Edited by Sundiata
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Thracian Reference Update

@stanislas69, @wackyserious, @Alexandermb, @LordGood perhaps when you "finish" with Terra Magna and Millennium AD, the Thracians could be the next big development? Their units are easy and diverse in terms of references. Just nothing on siege...Some of the Greek cities on the black sea coast were vassals to the Odrysian kingdom at times, and might provide some navy (?)... Buildings are a bit tricky, but I think we (and by "we" I mean Stanislass) are pretty close. For the wonder, I'd suggest the cult complex at Sarasol under Chetinyova Mogila, a round mound encased with a low wall of cut stone and features a monumental entrance and staircase (the largest complex of its kind in Thrace).   

@wowgetoffyourcellphone@Lion.Kanzen,  @Nescio, @Hannibal_Barca perhaps you guys could help with composing a balanced historical unit roster? We'd probably need Greek names, as Thracian is not well known... Any other input/comments/remarks so far? I'm not as familiar with Thracians as with others and could use some more insight (especially visual references of architecture). 

 

Lots of different stuff, mostly units:

Spoiler

4cb74f6889eaa416c746c9a8d88751ac.thumb.jpg.29289ff6690937cbb122fd99d3c15a17.jpg

 

Some ideas on a marketplace and trader, something very simple.Though, apparently Seuthopolis had an Agora with a statue in the middle (only the statue base was found).

17763fbe7504fb46a548ab9dd4709793.thumb.jpg.29d2990dc74c6554407f3469ef88d2cd.jpg

 

Elite life:

f48de0597e4c58e5ac3fdffdea1566a1.thumb.jpg.d96ef99d0b42cc6211f69a486f9640f5.jpg

 

5966f1d8d6521d5b889be60b3ac1adee.thumb.jpg.67ee0b0751d20aa70bf0ad65d5404428.jpg

 

Thracian women:

e5ccfafb7872bdf4cee532e710e18c1b.jpg.614f4f0975877a2fa6ac3c0c686e5ad0.jpg99ebe317b95b9feed0c757d53538a78a.jpg.196082e9851b3d14eeb53717b04f030e.jpg

 

Royal lady (actual reconstruction of Thracian jewelry). She Pretty... :) 

b5c5b7362d425db424e41ca14bd2a595.thumb.jpg.0b0a4f67190e94e64459214a777c4cf7.jpg

 

King Cotys I of Odrysiae, a good choice for Hero. He fought against the Athenians with relative success, until he was murdered by 2 of Plato's students during a feast in his palace... (I never really liked Plato...)

252716821_KingCotysIoftheOdrysiae.jpg.61c7e70aeb73ab8a90ba029783fddd4a.jpg

 

Seuthes III, another good candidate for Hero. He led valiant revolts against the Macedonians, and founded Seuthopolis. Dat Beard... 

1568371574_ScreenShot2018-05-25at11_42_19.thumb.png.388f12ed9edf3e9b58f61fa599681d15.png

 

These guys had exquisite taste.

538771069_ScreenShot2018-05-25at11_44_08.thumb.png.12ca6afb3b3cd8f6e5faa9c507864f5f.png

2023342523_ScreenShot2018-05-25at11_40_07.thumb.png.c7e44c2b3f4d43c10cf0d5685156f808.png

 

Their weapons and armor are almost like a fantastical version of Greek equipment. The more I look at them, the more I fall in love with their style...

1068909069_ThracianhelmetfromthevillageofPletenaWesternRhodope.Firsthalfofthe4thcenturyBCE.thumb.jpg.27c92674f363a69187640d47ee160a35.jpg           a4d1e73cb3b1c6d80736042ffc70627f.jpg.8b65b7b88bbc7d8a95e2141bb9275727.jpg

total_war1444415510_74-2-4_t_.thumb.jpg.692bd3f6a29478ed561b5a960ea81676.jpg

1634585212_This359BCEpanoplywaspartoftheburialgiftsofanOdrysianAristocratdiscoveredinGolyamataMogila.thumb.jpg.2d77ee55f2569b98f5cae973b4e483cf.jpg

 

Thracians used a ton of Hellenic and Hellenistic helmets, including Chalcidian, Corinthian, Attic and Boeotian types, alongside more "indigenous" types and re-imagniations. These examples are all from Thrace:

zhelmets.gif.8badd8b5623112f18a01ecd67013cb1a.gifdhead22.gif.825a85c22a0607831b699fb3f4ced63e.gif

chalcidian.jpg.1abac2614a6a477861be459b0f86d464.jpgattic.jpg.eaf58ad8db5d86109808c67656c47be6.jpgchalcidianbw.jpg.9b4d61b66a3caee7029df674a7d6549e.jpgthracian_helmet.jpg.fb3c033577e23e2edfb64c5896cb9700.jpg56_18A.jpg.85f11571a30a12332b2284caba0886a7.jpg

 decorhelmet.jpg.06dbd8395a10cff8cbf860b2a26909c2.jpgvrhelmet.jpg.61a55487805032149581015c2de22300.jpg4378015d12a779a8a11e0017ca820fe7--ancient-greece-greek-warrior.thumb.jpg.db33fa1a818d1752a207d82d155e44d8.jpg

 

The Rhomphaia ain't nothing to mess with! It's almost like an inverted European version of the Samurai! Elite weaponry:

total_war1444415966_74-2-1_t_.thumb.jpg.b05c901f7a058741ec7fc4be32691297.jpg

1034177022_rhomphaiab35.jpg.ba26d14141b477e8f1e1ea209918ba87.jpg

1408363855_Rhomphaia1.jpg.63d42cfe2be32705a0ae1d973d9475e4.jpgcd822f99f97f0e43724e8d3920f5ff93.thumb.jpg.128c3ad2de9189e251fe4de9100e4da1.jpg

 

Other equipment

e4da52790cbc1934db347b30acfdf70f--fantasy-paintings-roma-antigua.jpg.ac113c17e59a4e7d6c99912c6fad6dbf.jpgc3c7fa4fe8f921fd766deba9dbc7b505--armour-weapons.jpg.192b34753aa77d6c69958c0529c6d014.jpg74fd9fcb652454c47d8e23704dd6e3d4.jpg.a46285c7cfe60c63b25caea02b953095.jpg

 

Thracian gold and silver plaques depicting riders in full scale armor and/or mail:

fd610189b6c0fb7bf3fd40bb59f26bcc.jpg.ec122b818da871cbea4597e07043f5c5.jpg7f7ce1c4b2988cb3e084d1625f046e09.jpg.b9b93c8b68e70fe0263f51214d7bf6f7.jpg1ba5487091650389117430538c16227f.jpg.9aa38b9c7190bdef7695d8661087d941.jpgd6a6137f877eff9356f956b9a16274ab.jpg.8d76ba1e49bf6eb3b6c45a2423c956b5.jpg

 

 

In Battle! (vs Romans?)

0c6bf3d0436c25c45c636e563a660a9d.thumb.jpg.35f9f4c95af984a9eb95c6acd6edcfa6.jpg

e599f5746c353e002ee6c1d4f734ad17.jpg.30f923333b2cedf4ad9ac2b4ab6a54f3.jpg

 

A lot more stuff:

04cdc6a4d35d3054da39656551ef1158.jpg.733fcf353deeed32e8fcaeaf7ea76b95.jpg

cf9957a20d3580b7f99ebf3d17043fad.thumb.jpg.577b5c792f1fd26f746de475964e4a13.jpg

1555538577_ThraciansinserviceofMacedonianarmy.thumb.jpg.77bc921be36543435108ef3fa2979070.jpg

SvzeAFC.thumb.jpg.f6c8f99fc0c13db9f8518f022da0e253.jpg

RR0cd3I.thumb.jpg.445c79ae38758caef9255647fdb3331e.jpg

 

Thracian vs Macedonian:

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That archer is so dead...

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Reconstruction from paintings in a Thracian tomb

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Thracians in Ptolemaic Egyptian service:

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By the way, what's up with the first 6 posts in this thread? They seem totally unrelated to the actual title of this thread...

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3 hours ago, Sundiata said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone@Lion.Kanzen,  @Nescio, @Hannibal_Barca perhaps you guys could help with composing a balanced historical unit roster? We'd probably need Greek names, as Thracian is not well known... Any other input/comments/remarks so far? I'm not as familiar with Thracians as with others and could use some more insight (especially visual references of architecture). 

Thrace is not really my cup of tea, so I'm not sure of how much help I can be. However, let's give it a try :)The Odrysian kingdom, which was a union of dozens of tribes and minor kingdoms, covers Thrace in 0 A.D.'s timeframe. Getting units is relatively easy; some Thracians are already in game as part of other civilizations. Creating appropiate structures would be more difficult; wood was a primary building material, so I doubt anything is still standing today.

Anyway, about the unit rosters. Thracians - and Dacians - were famed and feared for their use of one-handed sickle-swords and two-handed scythe-swords (both called falx) and slightly curved sword-spears (the romphaia). A short, forward pointing sickle-dagger-sword (the sica), also used by Illyrians and Romans, was their favourite side-arm and "national weapon". (Giving separate names for similar weapons is a modern convention; sica-falx-romphaia probably formed a continuum.) However, Thracians often prefered using javelins, spears, and bow-and-arrows to close combat.

Thracians frequently adopted Greek-style helmets (but not Illyrian helmets, interestingly) and armour, sometimes after the Greeks switched to other types. On the other hand, Thracians were also notably influenced by their Scythian neighbours.

Here's a first proposal for a Thracian unit roster:

  • Village phase:
    • woman
    • fishing boat
    • two-handed falxman (no shield)
    • javelin infantry (pelte shield; see Macedonian)
    • javelin cavalry (pelte shield; see Macedonian)
  • Town phase:
    • healer
    • trader
    • merchant ship
    • pentekonter
    • battering ram
    • rhomphaia infantry (already in game as mercenary for various factions)
    • sword infantry (single-handed falx, pelte shield)
    • spear infantry (pelte shield)
    • archer infantry (no shield)
    • sword cavalry (single-handed falx, pelte shield)
    • spear cavalry (short spear, pelte shield)
    • archer cavalry (no shield)
  • City phase:
    • trireme
    • Greek-style hoplite infantry champion? (royal mercenary guard)
    • Scythian-style spear cavalry champion? (royal/noble cavalry; cataphract, with scale armour? and small but heavy round shield with bronze rim)
  • Heroes:
    • Teres I (unified Thrace after the Persians were defeated in Greece)
    • Sitalces (his son; allied with the Athenians, invaded Macedon; greatest extent)
    • Cotys I (gradually conquered the Thracian Chersonesos from Athens)

Ranks:

  • basic: partially naked chest?, animal skin cap?
  • advanced: fully clothed, leather helmet
  • elite: leather armour, bronze helmet
  • champion: bronze breastplate
Edited by Nescio
b/a/e/c/h
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I'm a bit busy in current and coming days so I don't expect I'll look into this

The key to a civilization is uniqueness and aesthetics

Unique techs and units would be needed, with exotic-looking structures to top

But as I said, I don't have time for this

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7 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Thracian Reference Update

@stanislas69, @wackyserious, @Alexandermb, @LordGood perhaps when you "finish" with Terra Magna and Millennium AD, the Thracians could be the next big development?

For me the finishing date was this weak, later updates or changes will have to wait for alpha 24 only 2D and Template changes are missing IIRC so, should i make a base for the shield textures for someone hand paint the patterns with textures like the millenium ad shields?

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