Jump to content
Lion.Kanzen

===[TASK]=== African minifaction buildings

Recommended Posts

Ok, against I start this because, is a official task and is time to start developing.

@Juli51

in charge of this task is @Enrique as departament leader. But you can have help from the rest of artists.

if you want  starting quickly with a buildings and avoid read lots of very specific architecture, I can help providing material.

so start for Africans around Ptolemy Egypt. 

We can start with Kushites. With houses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone can tell if the Kushite civic center will actually be based on the drawing from Juli51? I know Lordgood is working on it...well, it'll probably stay a mystery until it's completed ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not exactly sure what @LordGood will cook up, but I'll just weigh in my opinion on it now. I think @Juli51's drawing is stylistically great. My issue is with the dimensions. The structure should definitely be nearly square, with a small courtyard/light-well in the middle. The windows on the ground floor should be a little bit smaller, and the windows on the second floor could be slightly larger arched windows (an exposed brick arch would be especially nice and accurate)

That having said, I really like the drawing, nice work!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A perfect square would be accurate but it may muddy recognition, since the standard civic center is a plaza with a rectangular building. A large square building with a courtyard and small windows could easily be interpreted as a fortress at first glance. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try it both ways. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the concern for recognition. Although square Kushite palaces/admitrative centers are some the most archaeologically recognizable structures in Kushite sites, along with Amun temples and Apedemak temples. It's always the same kind of pattern, and people familiar with Kushite archaeological sites will definitely recognize them. But a "squarish-rectangular" compromise is acceptable enough I presume. Just see what you do with it. Even if you follow Juli51's design exactly as it is, it would look great. I'm just nitpicking for the sake of historical accuracy :P    

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2017 at 3:23 PM, ctietze said:

Would love to chime in and draw up buildings. Reference material is much appreciated @Lion.Kanzen

Me? ..why? It's Juli concept I only open the post for him.

 

I think this can be nice addition concept , is similar to Roman CC composition. A building with 2 levels and a "Plaza"  around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I rethink can be nice some Numidian buildings.im not sure what kind architecture have, looks Hellenistic.

 

IMG_4580.JPG

The other famous group are Berebers In the Sahara.

IMG_4582.JPG

 

3th Century BC. How relevant have Bantu tribes with the other Africans that are already.

we have many maps with those geographic territories.

IMG_4583.JPG

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, must've got that wrong, then, so the "I" in "if you want  starting quickly with a buildings and avoid read lots of very specific architecture, I can help providing material" is @Juli51:)

On 3/9/2017 at 6:46 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Me? ..why? It's Juli concept I only open the post for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, sauerkrautpie said:

Dont forget Pyramids of Meroe for Wonder :)

 

I find another things: 

 

Can be use for Barracks, Temple etc.... 

The development of Kushites is in progress...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lion.Kanzen:)

I was just doing some fact checking on the Garamantes. I think they are particularly interesting for a miniciv. I don't know a whole lot, but I'll be brushing up on some Saharan history soon. They were a Berber kingdom, with their capital at Germa, also known as Garama (one of many towns). They were a powerful state between 500BCE and 700AD, located in the Fezzan area of modern-day Libya. They had a literary tradition, writing in an undeciphered proto-Tifinagh script. They were known to the Greeks, and fought several wars with the Romans. They were experts at irrigation, and turned the desert green by tapping underground water reserves. They cultivated both Mediterranean crops, as well as sub-saharan crops. Made use of camels and horses, including chariots…

 

Garamantes sphere of influence (orange)

AncientLibyaModMap.png.163e89944e5ab8ddd85808bc7e8d71ae.png  

 

Ruins Germa, also known as Garama

germa-ancient-town-2.jpg.528b6e457ad0cf8ea91ade8d6a074b75.jpg

 

Central temple in Germa

germa01.jpg.5c11508ea1ef36c11a4859fd9db5d319.jpg

 

Artistic reconstruction of Germa

p2qiDZj.thumb.jpg.6a14d8d3f02019adf1b44b65b70f6ec2.jpg

 

Garamantian chariot

garamantechariot-vi.jpg.b5112d72651cfb584374af4318d3a43b.jpg

 

Modern day Tuareg descendant of the Garamantes, with Germa ruins in the background58c4474aa6050_ScreenShot2017-03-11at19_48_34.png.31a9101fb4f413a0ac438ca776dae7a1.png

 

 

More info and pics will be shared in the future.

Edited by Sundiata
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This image is gold thank you.

########################

imlove this fan fiction intro

https://arraonaromana.blogspot.com/2013/08/los-hermanos.html

Quote

The Romans ... They boasted of their courage, believing themselves to be the best warriors in the world, but in reality they should not be proud of having defeated the Garamantes, because in reality they could never defeat them in open warfare, nor their celebrated tactics, Nor his fearsome short swords, and not even his deadly catapults were useful in the Great Desert where a whole legion could be lost without trace along with the impetuous and pack animals.

Indeed they are the definition of a mini faction. Not much variety of units or champions... and not very large civilization.

IMG_4711.JPG

IMG_4712.JPG

IMG_4713.JPG

IMG_4714.JPG

IMG_4715.JPG

IMG_4716.JPG

IMG_4717.JPG

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lion.Kanzen

Quote

You have idea other African faction? specially emblem.

You're going to have to be a little more specific here... Do you mean a specific faction like Garamantes, or another hypothetical faction (that no one's working on yet)?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

@Lion.Kanzen

You're going to have to be a little more specific here... Do you mean a specific faction like Garamantes, or another hypothetical faction (that no one's working on yet)?

 

ear your heart. joke... you are African expert Garamantes or Numidian both can be useful for vanilla, terra magna even Millennium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, these (Libyan) people are related to the Libyan dynasties that ruled Egypt before being pushed out by the Kushites. To be more precise, the 22nd and 23rd Dynasties, ruling from the Delta, before being subjugated by King Piye of the Kushite 25th Dynasty. They had interplay with the Kushites! How cool :) :) :) 

Interesting write up: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?735996-The-Libyan-Kingdom-of-the-Garamantians&styleid=41

In our timeframe they were long gone from Egypt though... As rulers at least.

 

@Lion.Kanzen, where did you get this image from?? 

IMG_4717.JPG.e7c5afcb6361492a822665bda7579087.thumb.JPG.01cd294fc76b4ed24d3571a2fa1b6cea.JPG

Looking at the excavation results, that's actually Garama (Germa/Jerma), their capital! Very nice stuff. More accurate than I first assumed...:

 

1498254457_GaramaGaramantescapitalcitygerma-plan.jpg.5e76be47e6e24533384ed79497e5f918.jpg

 

Other important sites:

a5JAIyP.thumb.jpg.31b1439dc8ce668ae3b5d1211a285345.jpg

 

This is also pretty cool and quite relevant:

e9f741e430b31f07a13648f482a0c9f3.thumb.png.8ad51683718a7028fb34aa1feb40455d.png

"Anyway, when looking for some Garamantian architecture I came across this place. It's a Garamantian compound called Fewet. From what I've read it's was radiocarbon dated to the 2nd-1st centuries BC and is adjacent to a necropolis.", from Historum.com 

 

For emblem something like this? Although it might be an archaic style... I'm not sure.

1264217792_Possiblegaramantesemblem.thumb.jpg.eb474e5f34e9914bf8b139159db9591b.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

What are we designing here ? Mercenary camps ? :)

Just laying the groundwork for a hypothetical Garamantian faction. The research poses serious challenges, so anytime we find something interesting or relevant about them, we can post it here, in preparation for a bigger research push. 

They were a southern Berber Kingdom existing from 500 BC to 700 AD, centered on the modern day Fezzan (Southern Libya), stretching as far south as Niger and Chad. Bordered the Carthaginians in the north and interacted with the periphery of Egypt and Sudan. They were related to the Mauretanians and Numidians to the North West in the Maghreb. There is a certain degree of Mediterranean influence and they fought wars with the Romans. They were a literate people using the Tifinagh script, derived from Punic, which is in turn derived from the Phoenician script. This script is still used across the Sahara today.

During our timeframe, they were the kings of the Sahara, building fortified towns (oasis cities) and managing underground water reserves (aquifers) using a massive network of subterranean channels creating lush farmlands... They turned parts of the Sahara green for over a thousand years (until the fossil water reserves were depleted) and the population collapsed, becoming increasingly nomadic and giving rise to the modern Tuareg people. 

The challenges relating to this faction are the total lack of a navy (they live in the middle of the desert) and a low diversity in units which aren't richly studied. They'd be something in between the ancient Libyans mentioned and depicted in Ancient Egypt and the later Tuareg of the Sahara and the Sahel. 

Off the top of my head, units would something along the line of:

  • Libyan archers
  • Libyan swordsmen
  • Garamantian spearmen
  • Garamantian javelin men
  • Garamantian Javelin cavalry
  • One man Garamantian chariots (1 or 2 horses), basically just a small platform on wheels

Camels probably weren't introduced to the Western Sahara on a noticeable scale until the A.D. period. The degree of Hellenistic influence on the Garamantian military is entirely unknown to me right now. 

Garamantians are basically the descendants of light-skinned Libyans of Afro-Asiatic ancestry, moving south and mixing with local Nilo Saharan Africans. Not unlike Kushites, but Garamantes have a much more pronounced Asiatic (Middle Eastern) element.

Ancient Libyans (Archaic), 4 guys on the left (when they still inhabited the North African coastline, before moving south):

book-of-gates-1.jpg.0c6257556305f3abd2a07fece0e33c7c.jpg

ICXDz6D.jpg.f3cf093184256a281f628a96a21ae831.jpg

2af8d5ad8f20521c417472b5ad363a48.png.95cebc57d8c0aa5946d74b0274d8b405.png

 

During our timeframe (top 3 guys):

744503f0645c7d89ebad277126610154.thumb.jpg.a63b495fc30cc059563406b0b7acd9a6.jpg

 

Modern descendants in the Fezzan:

1459309370_LibyansfromFezzanGaramantesdescendants.thumb.jpg.7d202db3b4a25be9f50129c6984c66e9.jpg

 

Tuareg, a Garamantian legacy, the southern Berbers:

Tin Hanan, mother of the Tuareg, a 4th century ruling Queen (Tuareg were/are matriarchal!):

Ancient-Tuaregs.thumb.jpg.58e9d0729e4659fd9d07d8a6abd56f38.jpg

Tuareg.jpg.ffef6875ad14689cf49f32a4abc789c9.jpg

ecac85f2ad8b3f6cc2a8ec7ac1b3a53e.jpg.a5d5921434f8689a7fa7607179987d09.jpg

Marching-5.thumb.jpg.21b95d6f3045b6aa6cb38f7bd728c2de.jpg

2eb9ac40853eb5a6d2d2b920edc1a5a9--black-people-festival.jpg.0d47526dd3eb495fe6c143ea1a8ff314.jpg

 

Fewet, a Garamantian site (BC period):

https://www.insegnadelgiglio.it/prodotto/life-and-death/

aza-6-04.jpg.ba769bf445afcae54125fa9badc260ca.jpg

aza-6-06.jpg.b023695fcafcf9b57f718d3d9fd5f9d6.jpg

 

Architecture type is typically Saharan... Mudbrick with occasional use of stone:

aza-6-05.jpg.c8c2766de10300a342cc2ee1072ecbea.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Sundiata
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...