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Sundiata

The Kingdom of Kush: A proper introduction [Illustrated]

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1 minute ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

First post. Nice. :thumbsup:

Thanks! Almost finished... There's still some spelling mistakes and a few weird sentences that could use a re-write, but saving changes to the post has become a real pain because it's so long... The page times out while saving or something, often causing me to loose my progress... Oh well :). I really hope to finish it today...  

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22 hours ago, Sundiata said:

The page times out while saving or something

 

3 hours ago, balduin said:

@Sundiata Just write it in a text editor and then post it ;-)

That's not the issue, the issue is that I can't save changes anymore, unless I obsessive compulsively keep pressing the refresh button until 5 in the morning, when it magically does decide to save after attempt #37... Each attempt takes forever, because of the loading times. I don't have this with any other topic so it's clearly just too much for a single post. Oh well, with pain in my heart I deleted some images and it helps a little bit. 

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Maybe you could make a PDF ? :)

I was thinking we could make another design document like the old civs in the wiki. That should be easier to update. You'll have to use wiki markdown though.

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44 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

That's not the issue, the issue is that I can't save changes anymore, unless I obsessive compulsively keep pressing the refresh button until 5 in the morning, when it magically does decide to save after attempt #37... Each attempt takes forever, because of the loading times. I don't have this with any other topic so it's clearly just too much for a single post. Oh well, with pain in my heart I deleted some images and it helps a little bit. 

If you want to make your life easier, just edit it in any simple text editor, compile it into a pdf, and post that on the forums.

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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

 

That's not the issue, the issue is that I can't save changes anymore, unless I obsessive compulsively keep pressing the refresh button until 5 in the morning, when it magically does decide to save after attempt #37... Each attempt takes forever, because of the loading times. I don't have this with any other topic so it's clearly just too much for a single post. Oh well, with pain in my heart I deleted some images and it helps a little bit. 

What, why?

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1 hour ago, Nescio said:

If you want to make your life easier, just edit it in any simple text editor, compile it into a pdf, and post that on the forums.

That's definitely in the works... But the point of the first post is that anybody can easily read a complete rundown of Kushite history (fully illustrated), online. So that all this stuff can finally be disclosed to the broader public, because a lot of it actually comes from pdf's and books, which aren't indexed by google, making it seem as if their content doesn't exist on the internet. What's the point of uploading a pdf if it's content can't even be googled...

A lot of the juicy stuff was always "hiding" in these difficult to navigate libraries that only experts in the field read. I want to change that :) The plebs deserve to know about Kush! :P 

50 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

What, why?

There are several hundred images in that post now (often grouped in a single large image containing 2, 3 or 4 separate images, to save space). It's already a careful selection from thousands of images, and I would preferably add another 10-ish images, but I can't add any more without totally loosing the ability to add or correct the text itself. It almost seems as if single posts in this forum weren't intended to write illustrated books... <_<

 

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10 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

That's definitely in the works... But the point of the first post is that anybody can easily read a complete rundown of Kushite history (fully illustrated), online. So that all this stuff can finally be disclosed to the broader public, because a lot of it actually comes from pdf's and books, which aren't indexed by google, making it seem as if their content doesn't exist on the internet. What's the point of uploading a pdf if it's content can't even be googled...

A lot of the juicy stuff was always "hiding" in these difficult to navigate libraries that only experts in the field read. I want to change that :) The plebs deserve to know about Kush! :P

There already exists a thing called "Wikipedia", so perhaps you should just try improving the corresponding page over there. Or perhaps start your own Kushite article on the significantly harder to find https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki if you want to restrict yourself to 0 A.D. specifically.

11 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

There are several hundred images in that post now (often grouped in a single large image containing 2, 3 or 4 separate images, to save space). It's already a careful selection from thousands of images, and I would preferably add another 10-ish images, but I can't add any more without totally loosing the ability to add or correct the text itself. It almost seems as if single posts in this forum weren't intended to write illustrated books... <_<

Forum posts are unsuitable for anything longer than c. 500 words.

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Just now, Nescio said:

There already exists a thing called "Wikipedia", so perhaps you should just try improving the corresponding page over there. Or perhaps start your own Kushite article on the significantly harder to find https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki if you want to restrict yourself to 0 A.D. specifically.

Forum posts are unsuitable for anything longer than c. 500 words.

Capitan obvious. 

Why not use other alternatives.... Scribd

https://scribd.com/

Resultado de imagen para captain obvious

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You could also open an new topic and prepare a series of empty posts, one for each chapter, so that they will be in sequence without any interrupting comments. Then edit in your info.

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3 hours ago, Nescio said:

There already exists a thing called "Wikipedia", so perhaps you should just try improving the corresponding page over there.

I will go to wikipedia soon. That article is generally speaking pretty bad. Actually it's quite terrible.... I get a headache just looking it. So I just need to "mentally prepare" a bit for that. Wikipedia articles can't share hundreds of images either... The visual references are very important. I could spend paragraphs, even pages discussing a Meroitic relief or some statue, or the excavation results from some city somewhere in Kush, for example, or I could just show it to you... Get me? 

This is the first time this history has been so comprehensively visualized. Anywhere. Ever. Before it was all scattered in the 4 cardinal directions. Wikipedia wouldn't help much in that regard, although I could definitely help it.

 

2 hours ago, GunChleoc said:

You could also open an new topic and prepare a series of empty posts, one for each chapter, so that they will be in sequence without any interrupting comments. Then edit in your info.

That's a very good point. I actually reserved one post down (by moving my references into the main article) for images of Kush in popular culture. Those images that aren't necessarily 100% accurate, and therefore don't belong in the original post, but are still relatively accurate and interesting for art-refrences/ideas. 

I've been thinking for a long time that there should be a dedicated part of the forums for civilizations and their history only (not those puny wiki-pages). Each civ would get its own subforum, with a main history article on the entire history of the civ, fully illustrated, and incorporating as many of the sources actually referenced in the game as possible. These should be easily updatable. I'd offer to write for the other civs, but I think I could only do one every couple of months or so... I'm most familiar with the Gauls, so that could be a start, but I'd definitely help from other history buffs/research enthousiasts like Nescio for Hellenic civs, wowgetoffyourcellphone, lionkanzen and everybody else interested. A sort of in-forum civilization wikipedia (that puts the actual wikipedia to shame, with regard to visual sources, because we don't care about copyrights in the forum anyway, right? Right? No? Yeah? Yeah! Freedom of information for the win! wooot wooot!)

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6 hours ago, Sundiata said:

I will go to wikipedia soon. That article is generally speaking pretty bad. Actually it's quite terrible.... I get a headache just looking it. So I just need to "mentally prepare" a bit for that. Wikipedia articles can't share hundreds of images either... The visual references are very important. I could spend paragraphs, even pages discussing a Meroitic relief or some statue, or the excavation results from some city somewhere in Kush, for example, or I could just show it to you... Get me? 

This is the first time this history has been so comprehensively visualized. Anywhere. Ever. Before it was all scattered in the 4 cardinal directions. Wikipedia wouldn't help much in that regard, although I could definitely help it.

 

That's a very good point. I actually reserved one post down (by moving my references into the main article) for images of Kush in popular culture. Those images that aren't necessarily 100% accurate, and therefore don't belong in the original post, but are still relatively accurate and interesting for art-refrences/ideas. 

I've been thinking for a long time that there should be a dedicated part of the forums for civilizations and their history only (not those puny wiki-pages). Each civ would get its own subforum, with a main history article on the entire history of the civ, fully illustrated, and incorporating as many of the sources actually referenced in the game as possible. These should be easily updatable. I'd offer to write for the other civs, but I think I could only do one every couple of months or so... I'm most familiar with the Gauls, so that could be a start, but I'd definitely help from other history buffs/research enthousiasts like Nescio for Hellenic civs, wowgetoffyourcellphone, lionkanzen and everybody else interested. A sort of in-forum civilization wikipedia (that puts the actual wikipedia to shame, with regard to visual sources, because we don't care about copyrights in the forum anyway, right? Right? No? Yeah? Yeah! Freedom of information for the win! wooot wooot!)

Make a backup first. what about licenses(images) and bibliography?

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Thank you All!

For those of you that haven't realized yet, "The Kushites" will feature in the next release of the vanilla version of 0 A.D.: Empires Ascendant. Naturally, I couldn't be be more excited about this :dance2: It is the culmination of 16 months of research and development. An epic collaboration between many esteemed (volunteer) members of the Wildfire Games Forum. This mammoth task would absolutely not have been possible without the contributions, support and interest from the community, and for this I will be forever grateful! It has been an absolute honor to collaborate with you all, and I sincerely hope to continue this collaboration on other projects as well. I would like to take the opportunity to formally thank the following people, who were instrumental in getting this project off the ground (apologies for tag-spam):

@LordGood: The Master Modeler... Miracle Man... The Virtual Architect... The Guru... Imhotep Himself!

@wowgetoffyourcellphone: The Master Modder... The Bringer to Life of the first playable incarnation of the Kushites... The man with a million good ideas! 

@stanislas69: The dude that made the major commit. The Tireless Fixer of Things. The skilled texture and modeling artist. The organizer!

@elexis: The Code Charmer, Maker of Worlds (maps), also a tireless fixer of things, getting things done!

@wackyserious: Commander of the Wardrobe, The Digital Fashion Designer, Maker of Units!

@Hannibal_Barca: The Statistician, Master of the Tightrope, balance is his game! 

@Alexandermb: Maker of all sorts of Things, Lord of the Horses, The Virtual Weapon Smith... 

@Lion.Kanzen: Spanglish Man, Fashioner of Emblems, your enthusiasm should inspire us all!

@balduin: Maker of the first Github, Organizer of Info, Asker of Questions

@Skhorn: The City Planner, Major of Napata, Builder of the Great Temple Complex at Jebel Barkal 

@Sundiata: The Man That Just Tagged Himself, Knower of Things, the "could-you-maybe-do-it-like-that"-guy

 

In addition to that list, a number of individuals contributed significantly behind the scenes in fields I honestly barely understand (code/balancing/testing) and provided invaluable feedback:

@mimo

@temple

@Imarok

@Grugnas

@borg-

@s0600204

@Itms

@feneur

@Pureon

 

Thank you all!!! And thank you for the many likes and kind words of support for this topic: @Servo, @shieldwolf23, @GunChleoc, @av93, @fatherbushido, @Loki1950, @tuk0z, @Palaxin, @Prodigal Son, @Enrique, @Desophaeus, @AgamemnonPhlemnon@Zophim, @Juli51, @SDM, @Nescio, @niektb and others.

I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have left out (let me know)

The second reason I tagged you all is because: In preparation for the next release and future reference purposes, the original post that started this whole journey has been completely and comprehensively re-written and updated. All images have been replaced by higher quality versions (directly uploaded to the server) and hundreds more have been added. Almost everything that was used as a reference in the creation of this new faction can be seen there, and so much more. I wished to update it further and eliminate some spelling mistakes and awkward sentences + more detail (I tried), but alas, I am no longer able to edit it any further. A more comprehensive and updated pdf version will be made available in the coming months. Feel free to give it a read and provide feedback. Maybe you might get some future ideas / see something I missed / improvements for the Kushites in-game:

 

 

Maybe some of you reading might be wondering, what makes the addition of this civ so special? Why is the research so important to this guy? Simply put, it was a labor of love. Kushite history has been unduly obscured for a very long time, but times have changed. This is the most historically accurate representation of the Kushites in a computer game ever, and one of the first times that the Kushites even feature at all. Only Rise of Nations features the "Nubians" in the standard version and there are a few mods and DLC's (for Civilization VI (Nubians) and Total War), but they are not all that historically accurate... In fact, the Kushites in 0 A.D. may be the first truly historically accurate African civilization in a game ever. The original research post has become the most richly and accurately illustrated history of Kush ever published on the internet and has formed the backbone for the references of models, units and gameplay. This is the most important Sub Saharan civilization of Antiquity and one of the longest lasting civilizations anywhere. A forgotten powerhouse that should really be remembered. By adding the Kushites, 0AD has also added the only civilization in-game that was invaded by Rome, and successfully maintained their territorial and political integrity. They also stood their ground against Persians and Ptolemies, while reaching high levels of culture in almost every respect, making this new civ a formidable and well fleshed out faction. Diverse, and absolutely beautiful!      

Once again, thank you all! And most importantly, have fun playing! :) 

image.jpeg.ea34730f8be5c88283eb44ff751fe4c8.jpeg

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@Sundiata First of all thank you for all your research. You encouraged us all with your energy and dedication for the Kushites. Without you the Kushites would would have maybe not ended up in 0 A.D., especially not that fast. Great work.

To the community:

The second thing I would like to see is a separate article in the 0 A.D. blog. What I would like to read in the blog post is a simple introduction to the Kushites for somebody not familiar with it. The blog post should not be longer than a page. In addition, the blog post should advertise the Kushite fraction and the upcoming 0 A.D. version a little bit.

Third, the Kushites will be in the main game, but what tasks are still open? Are the Kushites translated into different languages? Are there art assets still missing? Is the testing done? Are there any other topics which need some work?

Fourth, in which direction will the Kushite civilization be improved? Will there be campaigns and tutorials? I personally would love to play some historical key events in a campaign. I see campaigns as an interactive walk through of history (in the case of 0 A.D.).

Fifth, are there any plans to bring the Kushites into the Aristeia bronze age mod? Or any other mod which plays before or after the 0 A.D. time frame?

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@Sundiata Do you plan to bring any other African civilization into 0 A.D. or a 0 A.D. mod?

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@Sundiata You mentioned you want to put the forum posts you wrote into a PDF. However, keep in mind PDF's are great for printing, okay for reading on a desktop, but not that great on ebook reader and other devices. Maybe consider using Markdown and Pandoc. Pandoc is a great tool to convert files into a variety of different formats, that would make it accessible for more people. Maybe you even want to consider putting your documents into a wikibook. Wikibooks is a project related to Wikipedia which is a platform for free textbooks (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikibooks).

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Indeed a Wikibooks would be ideal as PDF contents are not searchable thereby making then mostly invisible to researchers on the topic you might subtitle it a survey of current Kush knowledge and do add your source links who knows might get you an honorary degree ;)

Enjoy the Choice :)   

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I know that the general dev consensus is to not add more civs, but I would love to have the wider possible range of civilizations, not only for representation diversity, but also for the gameplay difference. Love to see an African kingdom showing that they had more than huts in the ancient time.

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6 minutes ago, av93 said:

I know that the general dev consensus is to not add more civs, but I would love to have the wider possible range of civilizations, not only for representation diversity, but also for the gameplay difference. Love to see an African kingdom showing that they had more than huts in the ancient time.

I guess mods are here for that especially since the new modio thingy we have introduced.

 

5 hours ago, Loki1950 said:

Indeed a Wikibooks would be ideal as PDF contents are not searchable

Is that true ? I can use the find tool in pdfs and so can google. The only requirement is the text not being turned into an image.

7 hours ago, balduin said:

Third, the Kushites will be in the main game, but what tasks are still open? Are the Kushites translated into different languages? Are there art assets still missing? Is the testing done? Are there any other topics which need some work?

1. Yes.All the game is translated if it's in the game it's translated. The only thing we might is hieroglyph don't support

2. Other than the spearman shoulder shield and some variations don't think so. Ah and there is archery range workshop and stables and some houses.

3. Testing is obviously done since we are waiting for the macOS Release Candidate.

4. We need someone to record the voices.

5. Probably need some assets for campaigns when they are implemented.

 

Then again for anything that should be wiki like we have our own wiki. We just need to create a page for the Kushites though I'd rather have something similar to this.https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Hellenes first.

Then we can add another thing.

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@Sundiata I'm still specting that supra introduction thread, where you were going to show Napata :(.

Btw, reading what you wrote gave me the chicken skin or that feeling... the chills? Don't know the translation, aynway, thank you for doing the first move last year with those awesome posts! 

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3 minutes ago, Skhorn said:

Btw, reading what you wrote gave me the chicken skin or that feeling... the chills?

Goosebumps :)

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5 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

1. Yes.All the game is translated if it's in the game it's translated. The only thing we might is hieroglyph don't support

is this statement correct: all the Kushite units, buildings etc. are translated for those languages for which 0 A.D. is translated to 100%. For more information about the translation status of different languages in 0 A.D. have a look at: https://www.transifex.com/wildfire-games/0ad/

Dutch for example is only translated to 92%. And we do not have any translations for any Cushitic language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushitic_languages

or for Sudanese Arabic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Arabic

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4. We need someone to record the voices.

Help wanted for people with recording equipment. Where do I have to go if I would like to help with that? (I am asking in general)

Quote

5. Probably need some assets for campaigns when they are implemented.

This is important for future releases, but not for the upcoming?

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@stanislas69 Yes, you can search in PDFs and yes Google is able to index them, but the reason why google can do this so well is because they spend some efforts and resources to make tools and algorithms which are able recognize objects in images and extract text from PDFs.

However, it is hard to copy and paste text from PDFs or work with them. It is much easier to write a text document (Markdown or any other format) and create documents in different formats, including PDF, from the text document. For example, most programming languages make it easy to work with text documents, working with PDF documents is much harder.

Furthermore, PDF has some issues when it comes to accessibility.

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Yes, it would be nice to have the game related content in the 0 A.D. wiki. Thanks for pointing that out @stanislas69. However, I think the content which is mostly about the historical Kushites would make a great wikibook. But I do not want to speak for @Sundiata since I do not know what his plans are.

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