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Suggestions about units balancement


Grugnas
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Hello, I opened a thread to discuss about units balancement and other changes that could change the tactic choice of units during the games.

Archers lack of accuracy in this alpha (21), and this issue change the strategic position of your units when you are facing the enemy in a battlefield because the accuracy increases as the distance is lower. Moving your units on a hill is more a malus than an advantage due the fact that accuracy would be even worst, considering that arrows have a chance to miss when enemy troops move (and this is an ok feature, far different from accuracy lack). This would solve the archer weakness and the strength of elephants over the rams. It seems that buildings accuracy is not affacted by distance, they never miss a hit.

Champion swordmen are the ultimate forces to use in battle, they are supposed to be the strongest infantry at your service when you have to defend a siege or a building from the enemy infantry. Ordinary swordmen are way stronger than an ordinary spearmen because they have 0.25 attack speed and 0.5 hack damage more than their counterpart while champion swordmen and champion spearmen share the same identical stats (in terms of numbers, it is clear that spearmen damage is divided in hack and pierce damage) and thats not good because it makes champion spearmen a far better option due their 3x damage vs cavalry. A solution would be an attack speed nerf for spearmen from 0.75 to 1 sec per attack, granting the superiority to swordmen in the battlefield when you face infantry.

Cavalry Spearmen are supposed to be effective when you decide to mine the enemy economy due their charge that can be really good option when you decide to hit and run, by the way, when you decide to face cavalry with swords with cavalry spearmen, it becomes a problem because cavalry swordmen are much more effective due their fast attack speed (0,75 sec vs 3.5 for spears) making them a wiser choice over spearmen for a metal cost. A solution would be to increase cavalry with spear's attack speed avoiding players to only train sword cavalry due their obvious advantage over the other cavalry choices.

those are just little tips I wanted to share with you and I'll be glad to read your thoughts about the topic. I feel sorry for my english grammar massacre, have a nice day :)

Edited by Grugnas
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Hi, about the balance of units, in the v3 of my mod I'll make a counter system that gives all units more defined strengths and weaknesses, so the boring, endless spam of a concrete unit will not be efficient anymore. Champion number will be reduced drastically but they'll have special characteristics. You'll need many types of units with different abilities and the battle will be decided on how you maneuver.

Here's the link to my mod. Would appreciate some testing replays so I can make the balance better:

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Actually i did few test with champions trying to reduce champion infantry spearmen's attack speed and they are still effective even the modify. The reason why spearmen deserve a nerf is because if you do a 1 v 1 between sword and spear champions, they spearmen will always survive with around 20 hp  most of the times, dispite the fact that ordinary warrior citizen swordmen will survive with that amount of hp in a fight vs warrior-citizen spearmen. My intent is to give more chances to sword relaied civilities such Celtics, Mauryans, Seleucids. What's the a21 problems in my thuoghts:

Macedonians vs Spartans:

           Actually in a single unit fight, despite the Sparta historical fame and data in game, a Spartan champion infantry spearmen would survive with 1 or 2 hp.

           In a group fight Sparta will win the fight with no problem since their 50 bonus hp are slightly more helpful than the  +1 armor and +20 hp of macedonians Silver Shield.

  • Training Comparison:

           Where is the problem, then?  The problem insight those 2 techs is that actually Spartan "The Agoge" tech increases the train time for spear infantry of 10% for a total of                  33 seconds per champion to be trained in a special building that costs 200 stone and 200 iron per building and if, for example, you would be able to fast train spartan           champions from 5 buildings you could just spend 1000 stone + 1000 iron for 5 special buildings that is equal to the cost of macedonian fortress + the Silver Shield tech. And they will still train slower than macedonians considering the macedonians techs Agema + Conscription!

  • Heroes:

               Leonidas has a nice potential since he is supposed the most famous spartan hero, by the way in the game he isn't that powerful at all.

              Why? Leonida has a +20% attack damage for his Champion soldiers that is too low if compared to other heroes like Marcellus(Rome +5 attack damage for ALL  units)  Boudicca and Philip II of Macedon who grants +5 Attack Damage to his champions. Since the Leonidas aura gets stronger the more techs you unlock for your infantry units but it will grant less than +5 attack damage with both blacksmiths upgrades since 25% of 15.8 lower than 5 (it is 3,95)! it will be useful only if you take the fortress tech that is hard with a lower number of workers in late game, really late game.

 

  • Conclusion:

               The spartan civility bonus of -10% maximum population isn't really worth it due the fact that Macedonians can do the same Sparta's job without a population penalty

               Sparta is supposed to have the strongest infantry in the game because they were a warborn civility, they only rely on infantry to win games. Macedonians can count on an arsenal of sieges and still have the second, if not the best, infantry champion spearmen in the game.

 Sword Champion based civilities (Celtics in particular):

             Usually people points at Britons as an Aggressive civility, by the way i really don't know why since they have swordmen champions who are weaker than champion infantry spearmen. They build faster because their buildings have lower health and they have slingers, by the way mass champion trains require the same time as any other civility as result that in a scenario where britons and another civility fight with only spearmen champions, britons would lose.

  •     They cost more iron than spearmen:

               +25 iron than spearmen and they are weaker. Spearmen cost +25 wood than swordmen by the way the wood is a common exchanged resource in the market.

  •  They are not effective against cavalry:

              Spearmen have 3x damage to cavalry units while swordmen have not.

Actually i tried to modify some files nerfing the champion spearmen attack speed from 0.75 down to 0.90 attack per second and it works great because spartans will still win against sword champions such mauryan champions with their +2 attack damage tech, and it will give higher chance to Sword Champion relied civilities to win fights.

Also is to notice that champion spearmen with this attack speed reduction are still effective, following logic they should perform 1 attack per second being able to win fights with hero auras benefits, by the way not all civlities with spear infantry champions have heroes with useful auras in battles, so 0.90 would be better.

Pikemen:

    Actually pikemen are too slow in movement compared to other units. A movement speed increase would be nice for civilities that rely on ranged units to grow eco as Macedonians and Ptolemaics.

     Pikemen Champions move slower than normal units. Actually pikemen movement speed is 6 and pikemen champions movement speed is 7.  Chasing cavalry, growing economy or getting in to the battlefield with the rest of the army requires more time than any other unit.

Attached to the post are the modified files. thanks for your time.

Thanks for reading and have fun.

templates.patch

 

EDIT:   Persian spearmen champions will be weaker than actually they already are and it is a side effect. I'll think a solution about that.

Edited by Grugnas
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