Your dream map ?

[AtlasMapper]

Hey guys,

Always looking for inspiration to create realistic and fun maps, I would like to know what would be your dream map in the main 0AD game ? Let's say for a skirmish multiplayer map, and/or for a solo scenario map. What would be its features ? What kind of topography or landscapes, how many players, what size (do you like to have lots of room on the maps, or being very close to your opponents), eventually in what world area/biomes ? What you would expect from a scenario map ?

I started to create maps based only on what I like, to play MY dream maps. But I recently modeled a map from somebody else location and gameplay wishes. I find very interesting to have some other players point of view. I think it is only the beginning, because so many different players, so many playing styles, so many wishes..

This topic is not a way to order me any map, but rather a way to exchange general ideas about what players find fun or interesting on maps, and to try summarize general ideas.

Thanks for any idea exchange!

[wackyserious]

Battle of Gergovia - 52BC

Skirmish (2)

http://www.gergovie.fr/htmfr/gergovie.html

[niektb]

@wackyserious: I already made a Battle of Gergovia map (I even have already some kind of storyline on paper) (although I never finished it):

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by niektb

[Phalanx]

A Carthage city or Rome urban skirmish.

[Lion.Kanzen]

How about this?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

This your dream map, Lion?

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This your dream map, Lion?

Not exactly, may be is impossible... I take the topic as map request to make. Hahaha I need to  take the  opportunity.

[AtlasMapper]

@wackyserious: I agree, this battle is a must have, if not a mandatory in 0ad.. What is the most interesting and important point for you, the historic value of this map, its potential in term of strategy ? The good new is that your dream map is close to be done by niektb.

@SeleucidKing: A city map sounds like an interesting challenge! I however have difficulties imagining such a map as a skirmish. In my mind, a skirmish map is a map with factions having basic and equal starting buildings or units (eg. just CC). If you already have a city built, the batlle would be asymetrical. I imagine your map dream more like a scenario map with an established (roma or carthage) city and an invading faction (or many). It is a bit like a scenario I imagine on Crete Island colonized by Roma, and being attacked by other factions. Or do you imagine your map as a "gaia city" and others factions trying to conquer the buildings to beat others factions ?

@Lion.Kanzen: Is your dream map impossible, or the screenshot map you posted impossible ? From what I see it seems to be quite easy to make (even if we should deal with existing factions, units and textures, obviously). But in term of land mapping, the screenshot is easy to draw.

[wackyserious]

If possible, I want the Gergovia map to look very similar to the image I posted above, and be clear of any pre-placed defensive structures.

Player 01 will occupy the plateau, where the oppidum is located, while Player 02 occupies the area where the Roman camps are located.

I want it to be a Skirmish type of map and not a scenario one, so that you can also play/simulate the match into a different setting/scenario, i.e. civil war between different Gallic tribes.

Edited March 26, 2016 by wackyserious

[Phalanx]

@AtlasMapper I did imagine it as a Gaia city.

[AtlasMapper]

@SeleucidKing: I have never thought about such a thing, that's very inspiring.

@wackyserious:

5 hours ago, wackyserious said:

you can also play/simulate the match

How can you fully simulate a match ? I've tried to set up AI bots only on skirmish maps, but one need at least one human player, isn't it ?

[bb_]

49 minutes ago, AtlasMapper said:

How can you fully simulate a match ? I've tried to set up AI bots only on skirmish maps, but one need at least one human player, isn't it ?

In single player yes, (though you can setup a match between you and AI's and just resign and DON'T quit afterwards: the AI's will play on).

In multiplayer you can do it from gamesetup (so multiplayer --> host game). Unassign yourself there and set AI in your place and then just start the game. The AI will fight now.

 

btw, with such questions you are probably faster helped in IRC

Edited March 26, 2016 by bb

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 hours ago, AtlasMapper said:

 

@Lion.Kanzen: Is your dream map impossible, or the screenshot map you posted impossible ? From what I see it seems to be quite easy to make (even if we should deal with existing factions, units and textures, obviously). But in term of land mapping, the screenshot is easy to draw.

My dream  map, is a  very big , may be Earth complete map or Mediterranian a almost real scale, I don't like very unreal scales.

to do this the game needs a lot of eyecandy stuff. And other gameplay features( new).

 

this map I'm sharing is one of many I'd like to see in game ( official) is like fortress but with water. And a big forest in middle.

 

and this other , I like for multiplayer, isn't realistic but is very balanced.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[AtlasMapper]

@bb:

5 hours ago, bb said:

with such questions you are probably faster helped in IRC

Yes thank you, I am aware of the irc channel. But I wasn't hurried to get any answer. Actually, it was just a simple curiosity question aside of the main topic. No need to take people's time on irc. But thank you for your kind answer.

@Lion.Kanzen:

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

My dream  map, is a  very big , may be Earth complete map or Mediterranian a almost real scale

Haha my idea for this topic was mostly to discuss about maps that could be implemented now in the game in its current state, or at a short/middle term.
Is it because of the idea of a naval invasion on a fortress ? I think like on your map, in its current state a space between the shore and the walls is necessary to set up an efficient attack. I don't think it would be easy to break a fortress made of Carthaginians walls with ships.

About your last screenshot, I think there is already this kind of map available (at least on the forum), with 5 players separated by walls.

[Lion.Kanzen]

The idea is  4 player 4 fortress ( palisades one and sodden towers) none stone were mostly of wood is in middle like oasis maps, 2 of them have a plenty water to  gather fishes or  whales and the other will have sheeps or domestic animals and some will  scattered  in between them.

is most like a advanced invasion.  In middle of those can be try to capture a special buildings( after cut enough  forest  or jungle) may be with treasure.

[AtlasMapper]

Oh yeah now I understand the forest stuff!

That's a nice idea indeed. As you said, one can add 4 easy-to-capture towers, a CC and a barracks alongside of treasures bringing enough resources to build in no time and flood enemies..

But I have a question, is it really possible in 0AD to block units with a dense forest ?
I tried a test in Atlas, and a dense forest doesn't seems to alter units passability.

Spoiler

Alternatively, a series a walls would have the same delaying-effect, don't you think so ? Whatever the solution that would be chosen in the end, the map is quite easy to create. I am sure niektb would create it for you in no time if you ask him and if he's nice

Edited March 27, 2016 by AtlasMapper
mistaping

[Lion.Kanzen]

about Niektb a have lot of time working with him in Council of modders, we and Stanilas founded the concil of modders, but I left them because no time. I'm thinking in come back again.

[AtlasMapper]

Oh so you should already be very skilled in map creation! I'm sure you could make this dream map very easily, and probably some even more complex ones. If you don't, is it because of a lack of time, or because the game hasn't enough feature in its current state to provide the fun you're looking for in this map ?

[wackyserious]

1 hour ago, AtlasMapper said:

But I have a question, is it really possible in 0AD to block units with a dense forest ?

I tried a test in Atlas, and a dense forest doesn't seems to alter units passability.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I believe it is possible, you can also try adding flora/bush entities in between the tree gaps, it adds flavor to the forested areas.

Tho, too much flora can cause performance issues.. (The maps that I made had thick forests, makes the map more alive but sacrifices performance, not ideal for 0AD standard maps)

You can also try adding/hiding apple trees inside the forested areas (To simulate foraging)

Edited March 27, 2016 by wackyserious

[Lion.Kanzen]

no, map creation no, 2D art skilled. And 3D newbie.

I can I'd like have skilled in map creation but... No is my thing the landscapes.

I can only thing the fun in those maps, but not can deal with the aesthetic.

[sanderd17]

14 hours ago, AtlasMapper said:

How can you fully simulate a match ? I've tried to set up AI bots only on skirmish maps, but one need at least one human player, isn't it ?

As said before, it's possible via multiplayer (you don't even need someone to join the game), but when you launch the game from the command line, it's also possible to immediately start on a certain map with certain player assignments. And an all-AI game is possible that way too.

See the readme: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/system/readme.txt

[AtlasMapper]

@wackyserious: ok I'll try with bushes, just to satisfy my curiosity. But I believe in Atlas the "show passability" option is only applied for landscapes, not entities. So my example was wrong. Anyway my trees have some strange behaviors recently, I don't think they would cooperate in setting up some barrier..

(A little game: can you spot some rebel trees in the following pic ? )

Spoiler

@sanderd17: Nice, it will make my future map tests much easier. Thanks for the commands option list.

[roofridder]

I was thinking about something like this for multiplayer.

It is really close to your enemy which makes it hard to gather materials. I did some work to make this map unfortunately did my atlas crash right after i made a screenshot so i lost everything exept the heightmap i used which i attached to this file. It was more of a sketch anyway. I would love to see you make this map a lot better than i could have done.

Edited March 28, 2016 by roofridder

[AtlasMapper]

@roofridder: Can you please insert any screenshot in your message rather than posting a dropbox link ? When you write a message, you can from the bottom of the text editor: "choose files to attach".

Ok, I can barely see the height-map pic, is is a cross-shaped landscape ? If so, it should be easy to draw without any height map import, directly in Atlas. Again, this topic is not intended to order me any map design, but rather to have a more general idea of what kind of map people would love to see in the game. Moreover, I am a newbie map maker, and my maps have no artistic value, nor any gameplay potential. So I am not the best person to draw you a map, I'm just learning. You should instead ask to some recognized map maker, namely @niektb , to draw it for you.

Edited March 28, 2016 by AtlasMapper

[roofridder]

@AtlasMapper: Thank you i edited my post. The heightmap is indeed a cross-shaped landscape i used a heightmap so the map would be the same for all the players. I didnt mean to order you to make this i just wanted to share this idea you can do whatever you want with it. Although i would love to see something similar to this map in multiplayer.