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wowgetoffyourcellphone

Gameplay Feature: Mercenary and Mercenary Camp

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Mercenary Camps

Hi. This feature in the mod already and working well. Each civ have between 2 and 5 different mercenaries they can train from a captured Mercenary Camp. On each skirmish map there is a Mercenary Camp near each player's starting base (but outside the player's territories), and then at least 1 more Mercenary Camp somewhere else on the map. Mercenary Camps do not take long to capture with a handfull of troops, but that means it is also lost to the enemy easily.

What to do to make the feature complete:

  1. A way to make templates un-deletable (so players, especially AI Player cannot delete it).
  2. A way to make templates un-attackable (so UnitAI doesn't force attack or AI Player doesn't attack it or human player can't force-attack it with ctrl-).
  3. A way to make templates invulnerable (so splash damage or friendly fire does not affect it).
  4. Any combo of the above.

Mercenaries

Mercenaries are not like ordinary citizen-soldiers. They can gather and build buoldings like citizen-soldiers, but because they start out at Advanced rank, they do not do these things very well. They are much better for fighting. Another way they are different is they do not cost food. Their normal food cost is converted to metal cost. For example, a Mercenary Spearman is not 60mc1IVBW.png50c74X0Gq.png, he is 60B0UAj5F.png50c74X0Gq.png. So they are expensive and can only have 30 of them alive at a time. But a big benefit is that they cost 0Fo3YSzo.png, meaning they are a good way to make armies bigger than the population cap, especially since in Delenda Est regular citizen-infantry and champion infantry cost 2Fo3YSzo.png and citizen cavalry and champion cavalry cost 3Fo3YSzo.png.

Mercenaries are a way for many civ to gain access to unit type they would not normally get access in their Barracks.

List below is the current Merceanry plan for all civs.

{civ}_merc_infantry_1
Achaemenids: Greek Mercenary Hoplite
Athenians: Greek Mercenary Hoplite
Britons: Caledonian Raider
Carthaginians: Mauritanian Archer
Epirotes: Italiote Hoplite
Gauls: Naked Fanatic
Iberians: Naked Fanatic
Macedonians: Greek Mercenary Hoplite
Mauryans: Newari Clansman
Ptolemies: Galatian Heavy Swordsman*
Romans (Republicans): Italian Allied Spearman
Romans (Principates): Auxiliary Spearman**
Seleucids: Thracian Swordsman
Spartans: Peloponnesian Hoplite
Thebans: Greek Mercenary Hoplite
{civ}_merc_infantry_2
Achaemenids: Cardaces Hoplite
Athenians: Thracian Peltast
Britons: Celtic Archer
Carthaginians: X
Epirotes: Galatian Swordsman
Gauls: Celtic Archer
Iberians: Balearic Slinger
Macedonians: Thracian Black Cloak
Mauryans:
Ptolemies: Thureos Skirmisher*
Romans (Republicans): Aetolian Thureos Skirmisher
Romans (Principates): Syrian Auxiliary Archer**
Seleucids: Arab Javelineer
Spartans: Cretan Archer
Thebans: Cretan Archer
{civ}_merc_infantry_3
Achaemenids: Cardaces Heavy Skirmisher
Athenians: Cretan Archer
Britons:
Carthaginians: X
Epirotes: Cretan Archer
Gauls:
Iberians:
Macedonians: Cretan Archer
Mauryans:
Ptolemies: Nubian Archer*
Romans (Republicans):
Romans (Principates):
Seleucids:
Spartans:
Thebans: Rhodian Slinger
{civ}_merc_cavalry_1
Achaemenids: Scythian Horse Archer
Athenians: Greek Allied Cavalry
Britons:
Carthaginians: X
Epirotes: Greek Allied Cavalry
Gauls: War Chariot
Iberians:
Macedonians: Greek Allied Cavalry
Mauryans:
Ptolemies: Macedonian Cavalry*
Romans (Republicans): Gallic Allied Cavalry
Romans (Principates): Batavian Heavy Cavalry**
Seleucids: Dahae Horse Archer
Spartans: Greek Allied Cavalry
Thebans: Greek Allied Cavalry
{civ}_merc_cavalry_2
Achaemenids:
Athenians:
Britons:
Carthaginians: X
Epirotes:
Gauls:
Iberians:
Macedonians: Odrysian Skirmish Cavalry
Mauryans:
Ptolemies: Tarentine Cavalry*
Romans (Republicans): Numidian Cavalry
Romans (Principates): Auxiliary Light Cavalry**
Seleucids: Galatian Cavalry
Spartans:
Thebans:
* = The Ptolemy Dynasty hired many mercenaries. Their mercenaries can be trained instantly.
** = The Principate Romans use Auxiliaries, or Auxilia. They can train their "mercenaries" also from a Auxiliary Barracks. Their Auxilia cost 1Fo3YSzo.png instead of 0Fo3YSzo.png, but by capturing Merc Camps they increase max number of Auxilia by 10 each.

I need help

All civs need at least 2 mercenaries for the mercenaries camp. I need help filling in the chart. Ideal world has 5 for each civ, but I know realisticaly 3 would be good, as long as there is some historical justify.

Also, I have not decided how to treat Carthaginians with Mercenary Camps, since Carthage has her embassies. I want to keep the embassies and do something unique for them for Merceanry Camps.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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For Mercenary camp and building like this you need an alternate type of capture. Similar to sheeps in AoK similar to Hesperides in AOM

This last fits with the gameplay. If is surrounded by enemy or other troops its claimed by these units.

Other examples are

http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Plenty

http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Healing_Spring

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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For Mercenary camp and building like this you need an alternate type of capture. Similar to sheeps in AoK similar to Hesperides in AOM

This last fits with the gameplay. If is surrounded by enemy or other troops its claimed by these units.

I don't know. I think the current capture way works fine. But the game does need sheep capture like you propose (proximity, passive capture).

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I don't know. I think the current capture way works fine. But the game does need sheep capture like you propose (proximity, passive capture).

not only proximity is the key , have more units nearly or defensive structure to avoid capture by others.

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I like this. It's similar to how I see the idea of mini-civs. I think with mini-civs, the mercenary camp would be replaced by a small village, with a (simple) civic-center surrounded by some houses and a few gatherers/soldiers. The civ is static (doesn't expand). After capturing the civic-center, you can train mercenary units from it. Each mini-civ would represent a different culture, preferably those cultures surrounding the existing civs in order to create a more cohesive whole in terms of the interconnectedness of the civs already in the game. 

I do think the ability to destroy them would add an even more interesting dynamic to them. They should initially defend themselves with a small force, until you capture their civic center. If you destroy it, you can't use them anymore. This is interesting because then you could attempt to destroy an enemy's mini-civ, and cut them off from further mercenary supplies, without necessarily having to consolidate your hold over a territory far away from your own. I think it might apply well to DE as well?    

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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

I like this. It's similar to how I see the idea of mini-civs. I think with mini-civs, the mercenary camp would be replaced by a small village, with a (simple) civic-center surrounded by some houses and a few gatherers/soldiers. The civ is static (doesn't expand). After capturing the civic-center, you can train mercenary units from it. Each mini-civ would represent a different culture, preferably those cultures surrounding the existing civs in order to create a more cohesive whole in terms of the interconnectedness of the civs already in the game. 

I do think the ability to destroy them would add an even more interesting dynamic to them. They should initially defend themselves with a small force, until you capture their civic center. If you destroy it, you can't use them anymore. This is interesting because then you could attempt to destroy an enemy's mini-civ, and cut them off from further mercenary supplies, without necessarily having to consolidate your hold over a territory far away from your own. I think it might apply well to DE as well?    

I expose this idea plenty here.

 

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13 hours ago, mimo said:

It looks like you want the {native}_  replacement D1084.

Okay, I read through the differential page [ https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1084 ]. For some reason it sounds really useful, but I'm not understanding how to use it to achieve what I want. :) 

 

This is confusing me: 

 

Quote
  • {civ}_xxx will be replaced by the civ of the owner
  • {native}_xxx will be replaced by the Identity civ of the identity

 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone

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1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Okay, I read through the differential page [ https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1084 ]. For some reason it sounds really useful, but I'm not understanding how to use it to achieve what I want. :)

This is confusing me:

Although I haven't tried modding A23 yet, D1084 seems quite clear to me. Suppose a mace player captured a pers centre with the following production queue:

      units/{native}_female_citizen
      units/{civ}_infantry_spearman_b
      units/{civ}_infantry_archer_b
      units/{civ}_cavalry_javelinist_b

Then the player (mace) can train there two units: a pers female (because structure {native} is pers) and a mace cavalry javelinist (because owner {civ} is mace). The other two do not exist, because mace has pikemen and javelinists instead of citizen archers and spearmen.

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Well, I got all that. Just trying to understand how it helps make ethnic merc camps viable.

 

Say, I want a Blemmye Encampment merc camp. I want a Seleucid player to be able to capture it and be able to:

Train his own Seleucid mercs
Train Blemmye mercs too [kush_merc_camelry_1 and _2]

 

I tried making the civ of the Blemmye Encampment merc camp "Kush" and then added {native}_merc_camelry_1 and _2 to the prodqueue and this did not work as hoped.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone

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14 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

I guess that's what {native} is for ? Then you add the sele units ?

I might have to make a "merc" civ.json or something and then have a bunch of merc_ units for training at the various ethnically-themed merc camps. For cavalry mercs it's not really necessary, but for ethnic mercs to be able to build the player's buildings I might have to do something like that to make {native} work. Or make civ.jsons for each of the ethnicities, which might be overkill.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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23 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Well, I got all that. Just trying to understand how it helps make ethnic merc camps viable.

 

Say, I want a Blemmye Encampment merc camp. I want a Seleucid player to be able to capture it and be able to:

Train his own Seleucid mercs
Train Blemmye mercs too [kush_merc_camelry_1 and _2]

 

I tried making the civ of the Blemmye Encampment merc camp "Kush" and then added {native}_merc_camelry_1 and _2 to the prodqueue and this did not work as hoped.

What was the result of your kush experiment? And won't the following production queue work?

{civ}_infantry_swordsman_merc_b
{civ}_infantry_archer_merc_b
{civ}_cavalry_spearman_merc_b
kush_mercenary_camelry_1

(Again, I haven't actually tried modding A23 yet.)

13 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I might have to make a "merc" civ.json or something and then have a bunch of merc_ units for training at the various ethnically-themed merc camps. For cavalry mercs it's not really necessary, but for ethnic mercs to be able to build the player's buildings I might have to do something like that to make {native} work. Or make civ.jsons for each of the ethnicities, which might be overkill.

Actually I don't think you need to create additional simulation/data/civs/*.json files. Those don't exist for the `gaia` and `skirm` civs either, yet you can set a template to those.

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8 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Well, I got all that. Just trying to understand how it helps make ethnic merc camps viable.

 

Say, I want a Blemmye Encampment merc camp. I want a Seleucid player to be able to capture it and be able to:

Train his own Seleucid mercs
Train Blemmye mercs too [kush_merc_camelry_1 and _2]

 

I tried making the civ of the Blemmye Encampment merc camp "Kush" and then added {native}_merc_camelry_1 and _2 to the prodqueue and this did not work as hoped.

 

Then isn't it enough to add in ProductionQueue

kush_merc_camelry_...

{civ}_merc_...

so you seleucid player, after capturing it, will be able to produce both mercenaries.

No need for {native} as long as you only deal with final templates ({native} is only useful if you want to take advantage of template heritance).

 

 

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 I think I figured out the problem. The Kush units are already in the production queue as {civ}_merc_camelry_1 etc. So by adding them again they're really just doubled up in the list and ignored.

 

So all I really need to do is just have a bunch of separate units for the ethnic mercs, which isn't a bad idea anyway. I was just trying to be too clever by half by throwing in the already existing kush mercs.

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Thanks to @Nescio, I am now able to make "Native" mercs and merc camps for the different biomes or geographic locations.

What I will do, similar to Nescio's mod, is have National and Native mercenary camps. National camps, for lack of a better term, are where you train mercenaries specific to your civilization. There is 1 of these on the map for every starting player, just outside their starting territory. Then, dotted around the map are "Native" camps where you train mercenaries specific to that locality.

So, you'd train Bedouin Camelry or Blemmye Swordsmen from a desert encampment on a desert or oasis map, while you'd train Nuba Clubmen, et al. from a village on a savanna or jungle map, Celtic mercenaries from a camp on a European map, Cretan Archers and Balearic Slingers from a merc camp on a Mediterranean map, etc. etc. While from a National merc camp captured by a Persian player, they'd be able to train Mercenary Hoplites, Kardakes heavy skirmishers, and Scythian Horse Archers; mercs specific to the Persians.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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