Thebans and generic faction questions

[av93]

-The thebans, will be in the official game, or we have too much hellenic factions?

-And about the generic factions (celts,hellenics) what will happen with them? Maybe they could be redesigned for scenarios: instead of using concrete units like spartiates or ekodromos, they could use more generic units for fitting better in a more broader context.

[alkazar-ipse]

I personally think that too many factions kill the game. I suggest one starts with the generic greek faction, and decides when aging to become the more specific spartans etc.

Most units can't be done till age 2 ANYWAY, so... This would also give a player the possibility to dynamicly (during the game) inpact what civilisation he will really play, without revealing it to his oponents from the start on.

I know lots of your answers "yes, that is how it was planed, but the faction diverged too much, so we found it easier to just split them up"

I just still think you should do it. think about it... If you planed it that way, it's because it makes total sence. Dont let being complicated hold you from pursuing the goal. it will be hard to find out how to finally do things, but I really think it would improve the gameplay.

[Mythos_Ruler]

We didn't split them up because it would be "too complicated." We split them up because we realized that they are actually more interesting as separate factions. Spartans and Macedonians play differently from the very beginning of the game. In the original plan, you only got minor differences (different Champions and heroes) in the final settlement phase. Now, we can give them differences from the very first phase, with somewhat unique technologies and unit rosters from the start of the game.

Age of Kings shipped with 13 factions, most of them very similar to each other. It was a very successful game and very fun to play. A large number of factions did not harm the game (in fact, enhanced it), and won't harm 0 A.D. In fact, if I had my way, we'd "ship" 0 A.D. Part 1 with 13 factions too (the current 10 + Thebans, Seleucids, and Prolemies).

[alkazar-ipse]

Well, If they'r really ment to play differently from the beginning on, then I understand it better now.

However, I have other things that concern me more then the numnber of factions (as infinit javelos and such)

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I like the idea of having more generic Hellenes. They could then split into the Achaean League and the Aetolian League. The Achaean League could at least have such figures as Philopoemen and Antigonus while the Aetolians could specialize in other things.

[av93]

PD: the thing I was trying to say, was to have generic factions for only scenarios

[oshron]

personally, i think that, if another Hellenic faction is added, it should be the Syracusans. but since there's already written designs for the Thebans as well, perhaps both can be included. that would modify the civ list to:

1. Achaemenid Persians
   
2. Athenians
   
3. Britons
   
4. Carthaginians
   
5. Gauls
   
6. Iberians
   
7. Republican Romans
   
8. Spartans
   
9. Syracusans
   
10. Thebans
    
11. Macedonians
    
12. Mauryan Indians
    

that would put us at an even twelve civs personally, i always like it when there's an even number of factions, so twelve is pretty ideal

[Mythos_Ruler]

Just keep in mind, we could potentially have a billion factions in the game for scenarios, while maintaining a specific smaller list of factions playable in Skirmish/Random Maps.

[Pedro Falcão]

Back to the days of my Ancient Greece classes, i remember about dividing greece by 3 architectural styles: Doric, Ionic and Corinthian (and Tuscan and Composite as minor).

Maybe we can find differences there, too.

[oshron]

Back to the days of my Ancient Greece classes, i remember about dividing greece by 3 architectural styles: Doric, Ionic and Corinthian (and Tuscan and Composite as minor).

Maybe we can find differences there, too.

i like this idea. even if the buildings are fundamentally the same, it would be a nice little "easter egg" for observant players if there were slight architectural differences to the different Hellenic buildings. perhaps different imagery could be included as well, based on what we know was present in Spartan, Theban, Syracusan, Athenian, and Macedonian structures?

Just keep in mind, we could potentially have a billion factions in the game for scenarios, while maintaining a specific smaller list of factions playable in Skirmish/Random Maps.

very true. personally, i think it should be limited to a specific number, though; a nice round one in fact, if the Ptolemaics and/or Seleucids ever get off the ground, i'd recommend also including the Attalids (though i'm not sure how distinct they would be from the other Macedonian civs). in this way, not only will the major Peloponessian poleis be included, but also all of the major Diadochi states plus Alexander's actual empire. that would also give us an even 15 civs

speaking of broad groupings, whenever it gets to that, i think a good feature for civ selection in random maps would be a Random selection which (obviously) picks one civ at random. to get more specific, though, there could also be, for instance, a Hellenic selection (the Poleis and Macedonians) and (possibly) two even more specific ones: Diadochi (to broadly refer to the Macedonians since "Macedonians" themselves are already a specific playable civ) and Poleis (Hellenes besides the Macedonians). there could be a similar one for the Celts and, in the second part, one for the Roman civs and so on

[Tomcelmare]

Considering what has already been done, and the different buildings and units available in the scenario editor, I think two more hellenic factions would not kill the game: I suggest the thebans, due to their long history (it's been famous since the bronze age), the units already done for them (ex: sacred band), and their unique position as a greek city to stand with the persians during the medic wars. I awould also suggest the corinthians (someone suggested the syracusians who were first corinthian settlers) for their contribution to the greek culture (corinthian order in greek architecture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_order ), their implication during the battle of Salamis (480 BC) and the importance of the city during the rule of the roman emperors (became the capital of a province). I think that together with the athenians, spartans, and macedonians, adding these two major cities would give the player a full spectrum of what the greek culture used to be.

[kumaryu]

I would like to see Syracuse as one of the Hellenic factions. Not only were they were a major power at the time (they defeated the Athenian expeditionary force), their use of of innovative (defensive) siege engines such as Claw of Archimedes and the "heat ray" (whatever that was) would introduce a loosely historical and quirky aspect to the game.

[oshron]

I would like to see Syracuse as one of the Hellenic factions. Not only were they were a major power at the time (they defeated the Athenian expeditionary force), their use of of innovative (defensive) siege engines such as Claw of Archimedes and the "heat ray" (whatever that was) would introduce a loosely historical and quirky aspect to the game.

yeah, the Syracusans could be a very technology-driven faction

[robooze]

I concur, the sikeliotes of Syracuse would add some nice flavour to the Hellenes, being slightly different.

Just like Cicero said, Syracuse was arguably the last greatest power of the ancient Hellenes while all the other Greek cities and nations were long declined. Furthermore, it was of extreme importance in those events fundamental in ancient world History (peloponnesian and punic wars).

It would be great to see them implemented.

[Phalanx]

On 3/17/2015 at 2:20 PM, kumaryu said:

Not only were they were a major power at the time (they defeated the Athenian expeditionary force)

Well, I maybe mistaken, but the battle of Syracuse was won because the Spartans came up and crushed the Athenian troops because the Syracusans couldn't quite get the best of them.  Also, it would be difficult to fit another greek faction in right now.... If anything, another Eastern faction is required to balance faction choices, but that's a different thread.

 

The Syracusans would be interesting, and I love more factions, but I think they would be a very low priority on the list.  There could be the possibility as adding Syracusan units for Carthage as a part of an embassy...

Edited January 28, 2016 by SeleucidKing

[av93]

I agree. But keep in mind that I opened this forum on 2012 (time goes fast!) before adding mauryans, ptolomies and seleucids.

[Phalanx]

4 hours ago, av93 said:

I agree. But keep in mind that I opened this forum on 2012 (time goes fast!) before adding mauryans, ptolomies and seleucids.

 

Whoot!