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ZeZar

What Americans can believe...

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Wow, interesting development in this thread.

First of all, I don't think any Europeans think the streets are made of gold?

Second of all, yeah, we probably think a lot wierd things about all of no. No need to deny that. But my point was, some Americans believe insane things. And it seems sometimes that it is not only the non-educated, but smart people. And it interesting how things work.

And YES, you haven't had the need to learn, but you do now :=) I guess. Our world is getting smaller and smaller ...

Anyways, about the sports. That is something I really haven't figured out yet. How come EVERYONE in, pretty much, ALL countries, in ALL of Europe, have a "soccer" (football) team in their hearths, while Americans (as far as I know) pretty much thinks it's a girls game. ??

And WHY call it soccer? What has your American football anything to do with feet? :) You kick it like ... 3-4-5 times a game? It should be called something like American Rugby, or I'm-carrying-the-ball(is it a ball?)-with-my-arm-..ball! Or something :P

Hope I'm not picking a fight here, I like America. But discussions are interesting! ;)

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while Americans (as far as I know) pretty much thinks it's a girls game. ??

Because soccer players act like they've been shot and mauled by a bear when they are lightly tapped in the leg or even when they haven't been touched at all.

It's also a little slow paced for me.

And I'm Canadian.

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And WHY call it soccer? What has your American football anything to do with feet?

I remember learning about this. :)

The term soccer came from the English, not the Americans. They set up a national football association, which decided to refer to football as "association football." Somewhere along the line, this got shortened to "assoc" which, was often referred to as "soccer" in slang. So don't blame us for the name. ;)

As for football, there is some logic behind it. American and Canadian football is deeply routed in rugby and football and it took its name from its origin. Also, in its earlier rules, American/Canadian football had a much greater emphasis on kicking, which was eventually changed to passing.

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AmericanWorld.gif

At least that's how I see it...

Funny. I think I remember something like that on uncyclopedia or encyclopedia dramatica.

World_map.gif

Reaganworld.png

Ah, that would be it.

And to add to that, you have no idea how hard it was to get a clean version of a fake map of the world.

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what the ...

the ronald reagan thing ... how come scandinavia is communist? Is not, nor will we ever be communist. :P

But yeah, the humour is awesome. Laughed! ;)

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Well, as far as I understand some Republicans in America are calling the public health system Obama is trying to make happen as a huge step towards communism, and that's not even close to what we have in Norway and Sweden, so I guess we're communists by that standard. :P;)

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Well, as far as I understand some Republicans in America are calling the public health system Obama is trying to make happen as a huge step towards communism, and that's not even close to what we have in Norway and Sweden, so I guess we're communists by that standard. :P;)

Free-marketeers until their friends on Wall-Street need a government take over because they messed up real bad.

Reality is Asia is going to lead the world out of this recession. Almost every economy in the world is recovering at a faster rate than the US. China - by the way - is one of the most capitalist countries in the world, the US is probably close to dead last these days...

Honestly, you can't get more communist than owning the car companies, the banks, the biggest insurance company ... all they need to do now is own healthcare and super stores/markets.

Obama's plan is affordable health insurance - so regulation on private industry and a public insurance program for the poor (they have to pay money to get it.) - It's a far cry from communist or socialized medicine but 'grass roots' (they aren't grass roots either, they're just the radical Christian Republicans) Republicans aren't too big on facts and truth. They're more interested in proving to Obama that Medicare is not run by the government (even though it is.).

Edited by Silver

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feneur,

Anything government run or assisted in is communism, or some form of socialism. Look at our auto-industry now. Obama said he DIDN'T want to get involved, ohhhhhh but he HAD to. Imho, the government needs to go back to strict and classic Laissez-faire (sp). And from what I've read and heard about European health care systems... is that they are very poor, especially when compared to USA's existing health care. So why change something that's been working?

Than again, those are my thoughts, but that's why I'm conservative. ;)

- HG

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feneur,

Anything government run or assisted in is communism, or some form of socialism.

And from what I've read and heard about European health care systems... is that they are very poor, especially when compared to USA's existing health care. So why change something that's been working?

- HG

First of all, communism is an ideology. Or however it's called in English (n)

Second of all, America has one of the worst healthcare systems as for now. As far as _I_ know. At least that is what we are told. Or hear from people, news and so on.

The good thing about socialism is that the "lucky" take care of the "unlucky".

Why should a child who's born in .. Brooklyn have less access to good healthcare when he or she gets sick, than a person born in a rich family? Is that fair? Is that what the American believes are good human values?

I love America. But as a Scandinavian with the way we are used to, and the way we look at things, I would never ever ever live in the US. Because of the healthcare.

I actually have a brother who got sick there. First of all, the first thing they checked at the hospital was if he was insured. WHAT? Should that matter at all?

Anyways

Of course he was, going to the US.

And btw, he had to go home. They had infected needles, so his arm got all blue. To this day he can't move it around as he used to. :\

So as i said, the country USA, I love. It's healthcare and it's way of taking care of it's less fortunate, not so much :)

To sum up: Socialsm and Communism : two totally different views.

Healthcare: In my opinion (and experience) one of the worst in the world. SHOULD NEVER BE PROFITABLE.

:ok:

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Can I jump into the role of smart-azz here?

Anything government run or assisted in is communism, or some form of socialism. Look at our auto-industry now.
To sum up: Socialsm and Communism : two totally different views.

targetfail.jpg

http://img.funtasticus.com/2007/jan8/fail1...008/fail001.jpg

Definitions of Communism:

Webster's New World Dictionary

n. [[see COMMON]] 1 any theory or system of common ownership of property 2 [often C-] a) socialism as formulated by Marx, Lenin, etc. b ) any government or political movement supporting this

Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary

communism

noun

(also Communism) /ˈkɒm.jʊ.nɪ.zəm/US pronunciation symbol/ˈkɑː.mjə-/ n

the belief in a society without different social classes in which the methods of production are owned and controlled by all its members and everyone works as much as they can and receives what they need.

Historians Nicolas V. Riasanovsky and Mark D. Steinberg from "A History of Russia".

"The doctrine of communism represents a variant of Marxism, based on the works of Marx and Engels as developed by Lenin."

"Marxism, especially as it was understood by Soviet ideologists, postulates dialectical materialism as the key to and the essence of reality"

""Materialism" asserts that only matter exists; in Marxism it also led to a stress on the priority of the economic factor in man's life, social organization, and history."

"The fundamental division in every society is that between the exploiters and the exploited, between the owners of the means of production and those who have to sell their labor to the owners to earn a living."

""Dialectical" adds a dynamic quality to materialism, defining the process of the evolution of reality. For the Marxists insist that everything changes with time. What is more, that change follows the laws of the dialectic and thus presents a rigorously correct and scientifically established pattern. Following Hegel, Marx and Engels postulated a three-step sequence of change:: the thesis, the antithesis, and the synthesis. A given condition, the thesis, leads to opposition within itself, the antithesis, and the tension between the two is resolved by a leap to a new condition, the synthesis. The synthesis in turn becomes a thesis producing a new antithesis, and the dialectic continues. The historical dialectic expresses itself in class struggle..."

To be clear, Marxism bases itself on the belief/theory of dialectical materialism, which asserts that only matter exists and thus material ownership is the fundamental driver of society, and history can be understood as an epic struggle between the haves and have-nots. This struggle presents a cycle of those with little material wealth ousting those with it, obtaining it, holding on to it, and then being ousted by another group that seeks material wealth. Furthermore, Marxists believe this cycle will have humanity "return to prehistory, when, according to Marx and the Marxists, primeval communities knew no social differentiation or antagonism."

Capitalism was the penultimate stage in this cycle, and a revolution would eventually come where the working class proletariat would over-through the capitalist power structure once and for all and live together in harmony in a society that promised equality and the communal ownership that necessitated that equality.

Lenin makes some changes to this doctrine, most notably including the peasants of Russia as a revolutionary force--Russia was seen as "backwards" and thereby not ripe for the revolution Marx describes.

Definitions of Socialism

Webster's New World Dictionary

socialism

n. 1 a theory or system of ownership of the means of production and distribution by society rather than by individuals 2 [often S-] a political movement for establishing such a system

Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary

socialism

noun

/ˈsəʊ.ʃəl.ɪ.zəm/US pronunciation symbol/ˈsoʊ-/ n

the set of beliefs which states that all people are equal and should share equally in a country's money, or the political systems based on these beliefs

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Dum dum duuuuummmm .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

I didn't see anything about government ownership OR anything about socialism NOT being communism.

In fact, we see communism as a form of socialism, which is based upon this idea of dialectical materialism, which states that material is the most important factor in our lives and the source of all conflict, which means history is simply an EPIC battle between the forces of "we gots wealth" and "f-u we gots nothing", which can only be resolved when everybody has the same things--which is impossible under private ownership--and hence means we must all learn to share. HUFF HUFF

Socialism, and hence Communism, is simply an attempt to institutionalize sharing, since people don't seem to do it on their own, and bring about a more utopian age. Socialism today, however, is much more utilitarian, using socialist techniques in an attempt to guarantee equality among individuals, or protect national industries, or whatever.

Mind, if your definition is true, HistoryGuy, you would be calling every government in the world communist. The U.S. has for a long time nationalized industries (like the railway industry) or subsidized industries (like the farming industry) for their own protection. Countless other nations have done the same. Come on guyz. :) Economists make a lot of sense with their free-market theories. But no one follows it. Why? Because it would piss a lot of people off! Farmers would have to work harder and make less, anyone working the rails would lose their jobs, people renting apartments would lose them to newcomers who are willing to pay more, etc etc etc.

Obama said he DIDN'T want to get involved, ohhhhhh but he HAD to. Imho, the government needs to go back to strict and classic Laissez-faire (sp).

When asked about the West, Mahatma Ghandi replied "I think it would be a very good idea."

Same with Laissez-faire. It's a nice idea, but it would take a brutal dictator (think of the U.S. supported Pinochet government) to put such a system in place, and the system would have to be world-wide. Communism required something similar, eh?

And from what I've read and heard about European health care systems... is that they are very poor, especially when compared to USA's existing health care. So why change something that's been working?
Second of all, America has one of the worst healthcare systems as for now. As far as _I_ know. At least that is what we are told. Or hear from people, news and so on.

At last, rumors begot rumors. Who the hell knows? I suppose this depends what you want out of your health care systems.

If you want a good perspective on the U.S. health care system, listen to this.

IMHO, Employment based health care is a stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, idea.

Think of it this way. Imagine if your employer paid for your grocery bill. For a set fee each month, you would be able to buy as many groceries as you could want. There is hence no reason for you to hold back, correct? Insurance companies have to pay regardless. So where is the incentive to keep prices down? There is none. So the stores raise prices on food, and then the companies raise the monthly fee on people. So, prices go up and up and up with nothing to yank them back down again.

So, the system is insane. We have two solutions. Go the free market way, and let people purchase their own insurance through competing companies (this will not give everyone insurance, but the competition will drive prices down) OR we can create an alternative government-based program that will give insurance to those who don't have it.

One thing is for sure: Health Insurance Industries and Health Care Industries don't want EITHER of these things. Those evil %*^@%&!$@! want their huge profits.

So, to oppose health care reform of ANY kind is a travesty of justice in my eyes.

Sigh. :ok:

Edited by Cassador_Chris

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Hmm, my opinion is still that communism and socialism is two different things. But I think it is because of the way (at least Norwegians..) we define the word. When the government gives free apartments to drunks and addicts sleeping in the streets, we call it sosialsm. It's NOT like communism because, as far as I know, communism is a political and ideological system that "makes" EVERYONE equal. Same pay, same benefits and so on and so forth.

There is no doubt that communism would destroy the economy as we know it today, but if you REALLY think it over. Would it be so bad? Everyone taken care of. Everyone getting what they need ....

Of course, I believe one of the biggest "flaws" or errors in communism (marxism) is human nature. We have it in our nature to compete, to be better than the next and all that.

Anyway, to educate some on how the Norwegian health system works:

When you get injured, hurt, sick or need an operation. The government pays.

BUT, if you are not in life danger or something, you just need a checkup, you have to pay a fee. Probably the same prize as a music CD.

In Norway (and probably a lot of other countries) we hear on the news and other programs about the way you Americans treat people that are injured, hurt and need operations. It is aweful. "You need healthcare. Or $40.000 by tomorrow.

I don't know for sure if that is just the exception or if it happens all the time. What I do know is that I am very very very happy that I can be sure that if I ever get sick or need surgery, I don't have to worry about the costs.

Dentalcare however are very expensive, but they are working on it :ok:

Have a nice day everyone :)

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Sweden is roughly the same (though a slight bit worse I'd say, I'd blame that on the oil our western neighbours have got :ok: ), so I wouldn't say being a petroleum exporting country is necessary. I'm sure it helps though :)

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Norway is a petroleum exporter. Not everyone is so lucky.

Yes we are.

However, you can just take a quick trip down to Denmark, or over to Sweden. Both have similiar healthcare and none of them export oil.

Although, yeah, it helps. Every 8 Norwegian Krone (our currency) can be linked back to oil.... Which is pretty much considering it will run out sometime in the future...

But, as I said, it helps, but it would be doable without oil.

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