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This topic is started to discuss the civilization of the Norse and how it is going to be implemented in the game. Here will also be the final proposal. Description: The Norse of old were a north Germanic people who hailed from Scandinavia. During the early Middle Ages their regions expanded to Russia, England, Iceland and Greenland. They traveled to as far as Asia to the New World nearly 500 years before Columbus. Though feared for their fighting skills, they were also skilled traders and sailors. By the end of the Viking Age, which lasted from 793-1066 AD, their raids on the mainland faded, nonetheless they have left their mark on European culture and history. Gameplay: Norse don't have strong defences. Instead they (should) rely on keeping the initiative, expand fast and get hold of crucial resource spots (which is possible because they can build houses anywhere on the map). The house has a small ranged attack and can be built anywhere on the map, however they're a lot more expensive than normal houses. The citizen soldiers have a small speedbonus but are slow gatherers. Also the Norse lack cavalry. They have a couple of hybrid buildings (farmstead is merged with corral and Civic Center is merged with the fortress) and their navy is very versatile (see the line-up below for the bonuses they have) Unit Roster: Warrior (swordsman/axeman): http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&page=4#entry280934 Spearman: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=281348 Hunter (Bowman): http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=282347 Huskarl: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=282683 Berserker: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=282863 Navy: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18521&p=289163 Fishing ship. Knarr: Merchant, Mobile dropsite Karvi: combination but weaker warship / less trading income. Snekkja: Warship. Loot bonusing aura Drekar: Elite warship, Loot bonusing aura, Mobile dropsite, trains units Buildings: Longhouse (improved version of the house): http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=283022 http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=303012 Jarl's Hold (combination of CC and Fortress): http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=288683 Farmstead (merged with corral): http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=295275 Tavern (Barrack merged with Tavern, where you also can train Berserkers): http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=291431 (left building in the concept) Dock: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=291806 Farmfield Palisades (Improved, stronger versions of the standard palisade) (since Vikings don't have stone walls) Outpost Wooden Tower Storehouse: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=309077 Market Temple: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17918&p=298492 Unique technologies: Clinker construction (Improves naval speed)
Well, the main aim of this topic is not to make a discussion of why techs trees could be filled. The aim is making a collective resource for devs or modders, if they want to augment the number of units of units for civs, reducing the uniqueness of the rosters, but making them easier to balance (I'm for a asymmetrical balance, and the difference could be done in other ways, but as I said, focus the thread into filling the rosters). I'm not saying that we should add or not this units. At first I would use fast and superficial sources. Later If I have time or somebody does it, I would post better sources. My proposition is to make the design historical based, but not 100% accurate. For every proposal, a short argument or source. Not unique units, mainly common units and mercenaries (try to stick to historical mercenaries used for the correspondent civ) based on existing roles. The format is: role (based on existing ones): Concrete name Justification: and explanation if needed for supporting sources Source: Athens: (Fast) swordman: Ekdromoi Justification: It was a champion unit for the Greek civ before the splitting (now replaced by the Athen Marine). Could be the same that Spartan commando (c-s) or Gaul Fanatic (champion) Spartan: Slinger Justification: Spartan used slingers in their armies, for sure as mercenaries, and I don't know if they were also native soldiers. I don't know if were the helots who were used as slingers, like in Total War. Archer Justification: The same. Could be also Cretan mercenaries. Source for both them: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130703083325AACyja2 Pikeman: Periokoi pikeman Justification: by the III century b.c, pikemen were used by spartans. Now there's a scenario-editor only unit, and has been debated to give allow to train them by a reforms tech Sword cavalry: Hippeis cavalry Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs. Source for Cretan archers and pikemen: https://books.google.es/books?id=RLr8CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=tarantine+cavalry+sparta&source=bl&ots=A-XsoU1zQ3&sig=I_smyZXsIO_j_SkVhaPBSDsATUM&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI0NDXlpTXAhXSFsAKHfcSCHUQ6AEIaTAL#v=onepage&q=tarantine cavalry sparta&f=false Gauls: Swordman: Justification: as it says in the original design doc, sword were used by celts, but mainly nobles. It could be used a narrow viewer to make them available as c/s Archer: Hunter Justification: Vercingetorix reunited hunters with bows to fight romans. Could be implemented as mercenaries, like Delenda Est. Britons: Swordmen: Justification: the same as gauls. Mauryans: Infantry skirmisher Justification: mauryan infantry was almost all made by light infantry, and used javelins Source: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/10/the-mauryan-empire-military/. This source also says that mauryans used catapults, ballistas and rams! Slingers: Source: https://books.google.es/books?id=jpXijlqeRpIC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=mauryans+slingers&source=bl&ots=RAdEwmEWZ6&sig=WyBgQ390GEkRCEiD3cw9auarmR0&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVoOaEm5TXAhWBoRQKHYjJBx0Q6AEIVDAK#v=onepage&q=mauryans slingers&f=false Persians: Slingers: Justification: Polybius said it, (II a.c) Source: https://books.google.es/books?id=C4A7DgAAQBAJ&pg=PT314&lpg=PT314&dq=Achaemenids+slingers&source=bl&ots=L5lL7a0O9U&sig=WdDtshe_OXpO5sfZxotqNcOZy1M&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuk9f_m5TXAhVEOxQKHbCBAS8Q6AEISDAI#v=onepage&q=Achaemenids slingers&f=false Iberians: I think that are pretty complete (in historical terms). But: Sword cavalry: Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs. Macedonians: Spearman: Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_army wikipedia Republican Romans: Pretty sure that the roster its historically correct. Normal spearman could be used, not only triarius if wanted. But probably there's a lot of room for auxiliary units. Spearman: Rorarii Justification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorarii Sword cavalry: Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs. Carthaginians: Infantry skirmisher: Libyan skirmisher (citizien-soldier) Cavalry spear: Lybian or Carthaginian spear cavalry Source for both: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Carthage#Formation_and_structure Sword cavalry: Lybian or Carthaginian sword cavalry Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs. Lazy to do romans auxiliares and successors. If somebody have more sources and units, I will add them!
The first step in creating a new civilization is to create a unit, building and technology roaster. This roaster is also called civilization tree. The following link points to an example roaster for the Spartans: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Spartans The remaining question however is: how to balance the resource costs, life points, attack and defense points of units and buildings? Is this just made by try and error or is there any method to calculate all those factors?
I'm trying to set up a database for all civilisations (at least for mods as there chaos is great king). [This post will be updated.] Where to find: You see an old rusty gate with foreign inscripts. Pass through it. (the UI is not really functional yet, as no data exists) Terminology: - Leaf node: Mostly text. The final value. ----Civilisation----civilisation_file.xml:<root_element> <element attribute="leaf node"> leaf node.1 </element> ...<root_element>Functionality & Status:- Generate a civilisation or mod structure from an existing template, e.g. an existing civilisation or from a mod folder recursively (such that it has not to be created from scratch). - There is no fixed export filetype. Both JSON and XML can be output (to put into mods/<mod>/ folder). untested - The export target fileformat can be set on a per file basis. And changed even for already existing civilisation data. - Add new civilisation. - Rename civilisation, - Merge civilisations. - Add new File to civilization. - Rename file within all civilisations at the same time. - Move elements from one file to another. - Add new leaf element. (via xpath) - Insert/modify leaf node values. (good for researchers that don't have git or repository access) - Version control. not yet - Sorting (after Civ, File, XPath, or Leaf Value), - Grouping (after Civ, File, XPath, or Leaf Value), - Filtering (dynamic), - Option to apply changes to all occurrences in the whole database. <-- That's powerful, but also very dangerous if it goes wrong. - Option to modify equal values through out the currently filtered data rows.<-- That's quite useful as this way you can 1) filter the rows you wish to change. e.g. all occurrences of mesh_and_animation.v1.dae to mesh_and_animation.v2.dae within a certain civilisation.. - Updating the database civilisation structure by reading a template folder recursively when data already exists, creates new leaf elements automatically and shows in the civs that new elemets now have to/can be added/ are still empty and need to be filled. buggy Example: A new required element has been added, e.g. timetag/timerange. Now all civilisation data that not has this element yet, will have this added automatically (with dummy data, that can be changed thereafter). Targets: The target is researchers. Hopefully this later can be combined with a mercurial setup. I just have to add a button to allow researchers to commit their data.