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WFG Retired
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Posts posted by Zeusthor

  1. It's definately possible to do... whether it'd be in by default or not is another issue :). Of course, you could always code it yourself once the game is capable of running ai scripts and WFG releases it. I don't want to go into detail with my ai plans because it's not even in a predraft stage. I haven't worked on it in months, but I don't want people to think I'm not coming back :D. I do enjoy everyone's ideas and I would eventually consider them important once I get back to the groove of things. For example, I probably will not support your type of diplomacy... but I can make sure the AI functionality is flexible and capable enough to do it.

  2. I totally agree and I'm hoping to incorporate good diplomacy between 2 ai players and simple diplomacy between human and ai. The 0ad team probably hates me for being inactive, but I'll be back to work sooner or later :x.

  3. Mabuse, the way I imagine it would work is that the scripter codes in how the AI should act and react to a situation just like you would in AOK/AOM. Learning would be an optional goodie in a scripter's arsenal where he can tell the AI to figure out how to handle this situation because there is no one simple way to define it in code. Maybe there were too many variables in the situation. It wouldn't be something automatic that your AI starts ignoring your coded instructions. It would be something you willingly applied to your AI script. Of course, this is just things I throw around. I haven't defined any implementation details. I haven't even finished any type of clarification and solution definition for AI. I just know I want it to be capable to support a scripter's imagination while maintaining simplicity.

  4. I understand where Stephen is coming from, and since he is mainly just uninformed and frustrated, I don't think anyone should/would take his comments offensively. If you think about it... the actual development started not long before you signed up. Before then, 0AD was somewhere along the lines of where TLA currently is. The big guys take an average of about 3-4 years to create their RTS. 0AD's been at it for 2.5 years. Why would you expect this game to be finished faster than how fast paid programmers, designers, artists, etc can do it? To be honest, 0AD makes pretty good progress considering it is volunteer work from inexperienced developers. I think WFG has gone farther than most people expected, and it's accomplished alot when compared to other indie/volunteer work.

    On top of that, 0AD isn't a bad looking game. Sure, new games will come out and advance the genre. It doesn't mean we can't follow behind or even catch up. The focus on extensibility almost assures me that we'd be capable of catching up. We aren't purposely holding out on a grand product because we are selfish gamers. I'm one of those guys who can't seem to find the time to do my job for the game. I won't explain my reasons, but it's a little hard to devote time to a project when you have other priorities and responsibilities.

    Instead of trying to find a fault, what you can do is figure out how you can help :P. My motivation to joining the project was simply a self-need to improve how scripting can be used to create the game environment. I kept complaining about how AOM did it, so I thought, why not be the one who defined how 0AD does it. Maybe you have a certain skill set we could use or maybe you know how to help us acquire volunteers :S. Inconstructive criticism doesn't help you nor us, so keep it productive.

  5. I haven't really been working on this stuff for a good 2-3 months, but I do plan to incorporate some learning into the AI if I'm smart enough to figure out how it should be done :D. I need to finish up some personal projects before I dive back in though.

    And as Matei said, we don't really know how it'll look like until it's almost done because things change over time. If I have anything to do with it, it'll be easy to work with though ;).

  6. I was a big troublemaker in my teen years... not so long ago as I'm a few days from 21. I used to regularly visit some stores to shoplift with a few friends, but it wasn't really for the sake of stealing... We liked when the store owners chased us a few blocks, lol. It got to a point where we didn't even steal anymore, we just walked in the store, teased the owners, and have fun with a chase. I remember this one guy kept a stick to beat us with when we came around, we felt so special that he'd go through that kind of trouble. He never did catch us with that stick although he threw it at one of us one day in frustration. Another store owner kept 911 on speed dial and when he saw me and my cousin, he called them right away. That day we weren't even trying anything, but cops happened to be in the area and chased us, so we ran into the projects which makes it hard for them to come after us in their patrol car :).

    Let's see... stories... hmm... I used to rob kids for their money and pokemon cards long ago too :x, but I soon realized I didn't like doing that very much as I felt guilty about it.

    I've been caught twice by cops... once when I was like 13, I was trying to steal those stupid finger skateboards from toys r us. The funny thing is... the store detective convinced me to do it... Aren't they supposed to just watch people? Anyway, I was 13... what could they do? Second time, I was with a few people in K-Mart and they were trying to steal computer games. I didn't participate at all seeing as they had cameras in every corner of the store. They said I was an accomplice of some sort, but they let me go cuz I obviously didn't do anything.

    But wait... there's more... I remember trespassing on the roof of a clothing store that was robbed a few days before (not by me or anyone I know :() which was really stupid. After we left, like 10 cops on bikes were chasing us. We were pretty good at running away though so after some climbing and running, we got away clean.

    I spent 24 hours in jail, but I was completely innocent. I was in my friend's car so he can take me somewhere and I fell asleep. Sometime during that, he felt the need to make a quick stop to pick up some marijuana for himself on a spot that was being watched. Cops eventually swarmed the car when he drove away and took us in... I was still sleeping the whole time until the point the cop knocked on the window. Supposedly, I was so high I fell asleep or so they say... I was pissed off that day... I haven't been doing drugs and they take me in for nothing just so the judge can dismiss any charges afterwards.

    I would continue on, but It would turn into a mini-series ;).

  7. Our scripting language is more like AOM than AOK, but it's simpler than AOM. It might be possible to creating scripts in-game, but there are no plans to do so. We'll definately offer a good debugger and error handler to help find incorrect commands and logic in scripts though.

  8. I'm hoping to push what's expected from AI in an RTS game with 0ad so you can expect a bunch of cool things from it. I read somewhere in this thread where someone suggested to turn micromanagement on and off where the AI takes over some things if you don't care about handling it which is exactly one of those cool things I hope to present.

    I'm also making it possible for the AI to communicate with another AI and play like a team such as helping a teammate when it's being attacked, building in an area under constant pressure, allying with others if it's beneficial to the AI, etc. I'm hoping to even make it possible for AI to human and vice-versa type communication although it'd be much more subtle.

    AI to AI battles are definately interesting and I'm expecting it to be even more important in 0ad since scripters would be allowed to do much more. We haven't really delved deep into details yet, but you can see we are pushing the limits in everything we put our hands on :banana:.

  9. I was thinking of a much larger scale... Something like how Visual Studio makes Windows Forms.

    That feature is relatively simple to implement into scened, but it screams feature creep B). A scenario editor should be for just that... editting scenarios. When time allows, I'm sure we could get some people to code an RMS editor. BTW, RMS isn't that hard :S. IMO. our RMS language is simpler than AOK/AOM. You can create detailed groupings in code with ease although it'd take some preplanning to figure out :P.

  10. Okay, I'll take it back... It should theoretically be possible. Even more so because our RMS language is object-oriented. It's alot of work to create that type of editor though. I wouldn't dismiss a possible Visual RMS Editor in the future. But the first 0ad release most likely wouldn't include it.

  11. btw, mabuse... thx for specifying that... yes you could compare functions with eachother directly.

    "how to determine what i wanted to do ? Thats impossible - and anyway not needed"

    To determine that, we could log the decisions and actions the AI made sorta like a movie script of what happened during a game. You could then use it to find things that you find wrong... like why did it go for so much wood if it needed to make cavalry type things B).

  12. The AI editor is probably a no. There are many text editors you could use and some allow you to define syntax highlighting with a configuration file. As for debugging, this would be implemented into the game engine itself. I wanted to put less emphasize on a script debugger and more emphasize on an informative error handler though. If the script can send you notices/warnings without failing unless it was a critical bug, you have a better chance of figuring out what's wrong. It would even help find logical bugs that aren't obvious, but you'd like to know about them. :S Logical operators would come in the form of >, <, >=, <=. There is no reason to create keywords for something like that as AOK did.

    Could you try to explain what you mean by storing variables? What variables would you store?

    I was thinking that the AI can maneuver by choosing a point based object placement. If your patrolling unit saw these miners, you could have the AI move somewhere within the range of that area. Counting objects is also an important way to consider your plan of action. I think your idea is implemented best just as you described it. Do you think choosing a point based on where friendly/enemy objects are would be effective enough?

    I can't exactly show you how the AI will look because it's too early. I also don't want to move the conversation towards the actual language yet and just keep it as an ideas thread :P.

    "so i want a lot of individual control, but ONLY if i want to do it." Don't we all? B). The plan is to use a constraint-based system which I won't explain in detail at this time which allows you to choose units depending on information about them such as "garrison 6 of the closest idle civilians to tower" or "garrison the 6 civilians to the closest tower". Things like building a tower near a resource by the gatherers themselves becomes possible with little effort. You know who you want to do your tasks, all we have to do is make sure you can pick them without keeping track of specific units.

    About what he means when it comes to storing errors. There are more than 1 type of error. There is the error that prevents the script from running, an error that doesn't do what you thought it would, and errors that occured externally such as not enough system resources or couldn't load a needed file. So, you need to keep track of them all the most important being the errors that don't do what you thought it would. These logic errors are very hard to find when it comes to AI.

  13. Hi, I think it's time we heard from you AI Scripters and AI hopefuls about what you want the AI language to do for YOU. It would be best to stay as general as possible and let us deal with specifics. So go wild and tell us what you want.

  14. Hi, I think it's time we heard from you Random Map Scripters and RMS hopefuls about what you want the RMS language to do for YOU. It would be best to stay as general as possible and let us deal with specifics. So go wild and tell us what you want.

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