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#1 av_nefardec


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Posted 12 January 2004 - 05:52 AM

In the Lost Tales Part I, Christopher Tolkien notes:

It emerges from this list that...Melko has a son ('by Ulbandi') called Kosomot: this, it will emerge later, was Gothmog Lord of Balrogs, whom Ecthelion slew in Gondolin.

I lent my LT2 to a friend so someone who has it - could you check the index for references about Gothmog, Ulbandi, and Kosomot to see if we can find any more references of this sort?

For that matter, other volumes of HoME too.

This strange origin of Gothmog gives more root to the notion I had that Balrogs were somewhat similar in appearance to Morgoth. :/

Interesting things.
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Adam [aka av_nefardec]

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#2 Halmirion



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Posted 07 February 2004 - 03:14 AM

From LT2, in the name-list from the Fall of Gondolin:

'was a son of Melko and the ogress Fluithuin and his name is Strife-and-hatred, and he was Captain of hte Balrogs and lord of Melko's hosts ere fair Ecthelion slew him at the taking of Gondolin. The Eldar named him Kosmoko or Kosomok(o).'
[Short paragraph acknowledging that in LT1 it's said that Melkor had a son by Ulbandi named Kosomot, and that the early 'Qenya' dict. gives Kosomoko=Gnomish Gothmog.]
'In the later development of the legends Gothmog was the slayer of Feanor, and in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears it was he who slew Fingon and captured Hurin. He is not of course called later 'son of Melkor'; the 'Children of the Valar' was a feature of the earlier mythology that my father discarded.'

Much like, IIRC, Fionwe [Eonwe] was originally the son of Manwe and Varda, but was of course changed when the whole idea of Ainur having children was thrown out.

Hope that helps any.
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#3 Gilluin



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Posted 20 April 2004 - 01:26 PM

There is a lot of confusion inregards to Gothmog. At one time he is the son of Morgoth and an Ogress, but in another he is just a really nasty Balrog. Myself, I lean towards the son of Morgoth line as it holds the theme of Morgoth wanting to produce life and this is his way of getting at it. Although you never actually hear of Ogres or Ogresses in any other text.

Things that make you go hmmmmm......
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Mae govannen, mellon! Elen sla lmenn omentielvo.

#4 Enarwaen


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Posted 20 April 2004 - 02:20 PM

this is Son-of-Morgoth (Gothmog) and Son-of-Manwe (Fionw -> later Eonw) business was an early conception of the myths.

The professor himself changes and dismantles this during his revising in the Later Quenta Silmarillion and in the Annals of Aman (cf. HoME Vol.10)
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